The back yard of this place is large and about a third of it is treed. There is a large deck on the back of the house and it's very private with mature shrubs and trees lining the lot lines. The "lawn" area has been neglected and has probably never seen Weed and Feed. I'm not thrilled at the weed patch and have heard these organic products are not as effective as the old fashioned ones so I'm not really keen on fighting a loosing battle there. I'd like a lush green weedless carpet of grass but since that's not likely with the chemical ban what are some other alternatives? A pool is not in the budget.
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Here's some pics of the small area I have been working on. 13 hours of hand weeding and when I saw it would take probably another 3 more I just gave up. Maybe work on that part next year. I raked the bits of wood from where the trees were cut and then seeded and fertilized. Hopefully it will sprout in a week or so.
The big mountain of wood chips was left when they cut the trees, the smaller branches were chipped up and I've been using them on the flower beds. That big mountain was twice as large not too long ago, hopefully I can get working on moving all that around the garden.
I think I could have a complete collection of Ontario weeds from what I have. I guess that's what happens when people don't stay on top of it. My plan is to remove the weeds and then sow grass seed, we are having an exceptionally cool and wet summer that I may as well take advantage of Mother Nature when I can. Quite a bit of grass has sprouted since the trees were cut down all on its own. It's just very patchy once the weeds are gone. If I can get this completed today or tomorrow then I can reseed the bare patches and soon contribute to air and noise pollution like my neighbours by mowing but only on a small scale since only one other house on the street has a non riding type mower, we are the poor folks I guess.
Some clover, some moss, even dandelions is nothing compared to what I have this new garden. I have thistles, plantain, and wild strawberries in my grass, and other spiky unpleasantries. These do not come out in one piece.
In the beds the thistles are shoulder height, and covered in long thorns. I have scratched my arms, and the thorns have pierced right through my gloves. I have weeds that have been here for so long their stems are an inch thick, and even a sharp tool doesn't chop it off, it is so fibrous. I have burdock coming through the paving, with thick stems that look like rhubarb. I have kilometers of bindweed, strangling what little perennials were left when we moved in here 2 weeks ago. I have other weeds, I don't know the name of, but are just as monstrous as the rest.
The weeds I have managed to dig out, had roots the size of turnips!
So a little bit of clover, or mossy areas, or dandelion is the least of my worries. I find these are the easiest to pull out. That is why after pulling out heaps and heaps of weeds and still more to go, 2 weeks later, I have resorted to using a little help from Roundup, as I look at the patches I did weed, and some new weeds are coming back.
The grass I will get to later, once I have calmed the jungle in the beds.:D
There are some wars you can't win. I guess if we knew why you needed grass there we might have some ideas - I've seen the fake stuff on tv and in magazines but never in person - however I want it really really badly. No cutting, no weeding, no fertilizing, no watering, although you can wash it down whenever necessary. All the reports I have seen on it are positive, and it's been used extensively on sports fields.
I'm turning some of my grass areas into patio - paving stones with large planters - easier to keep weed free (especially here because we have cactus whose roots go to China as well as dandelions). Another area I'm turning into a kind of "strolling garden" with path's through shrubbery.
The "play" area is where I really want the fake grass. I can't afford to do it all at once, but until it's done, we deal with what we have. The neighbour on one side of us uses every herbicide known to man, including some banned ones, We wake up some morning with the chemical smell coming in the window and our throats dry and sore and wonder just how much damage we just had happen to us. We have never used any on our property, but we try to keep the weeds cut low enough that seeds aren't an issue. The neighbour on the other side leaves the dandelions and cactus to go to seed.
Sorry ladies but I have spent 10 hours weeding the front by hand and I'm still not finished. 30 minutes with Weed N Feed and it would have been done. I haven't had tree huggers volunteer to help either so there's my rant.
[url]http://www.i-sis.org.uk/Ban_Glyphosate_Herbicides_Now.php[/url]
To put some perspective on the situation. If you google the scientific terms you are unfamiliar with you will find they are talking about all the common herbicides, including roundup.
I'm with you Crystal Spring - I resent my neighbours endangering my families health because a "perfect grass lawn" or "a perfect garden" is all they can envision for their yard, especially for my child. The negative health effects are serious and permanent, there is no remedy.
I can't wait until they ban them here, and I think the bans are coming way too late, they've known for a while now how bad they are.
crystal spring, I am with you on that - why should household use be banned, when it can still be used by farmers, golf courses, municipalities etc. Does their water run off into different places than ours? I feel the same with re-cycling - household garbage is limited, we are urge to conserve hydro etc., yet apartment buildings have no restrictions (except those imposed voluntarily), and office buildings, including government ones, are still way too cool in summer, and burn lights all night! NOT FAIR !!!!!!!!!!
FYI pesticide means a chemical used for killing something biological that is unwanted so it can apply to plants, animals, fungi and insects. Insecticide only refers to insects.
People need to change their mindset about weeds and what is truly important in this world. It drives me nuts when all I can smell in my neighborhood is weed and feed when I choose NOT to use chemicals. Neighbours adjacent to me on all sides still use Weed and Feed and you can't tell me that my family's health isn't affected by these selfish people's actions. What is the purpose of having a golf course lawn? For that matter, why are golf courses exempt? Who cares? We need to look at the bigger picture here and change the mindset! That is my rant for today.
Crownvetch!?!? We pull that out as a weed.
I managed to do about a third of the front before it started to rain. I could have got more done but I couldn't find my trusty tool, haven't really unpacked that kind of thing yet so I had to go on a hunt for it.
I removed everything other than the grass and clover. Years ago clover was considered a good sign for a lawn but then when they came out with the chemical lawn products they removed all broadleafed weeds so the clover unfortunately dissappeared too. Many people are using clover for their lawns entirely in other parts of the world as grass is so 20th Century :laugh: I don't think a clover lawn would go over too well around here in the front but I might try it in the back.
I found some poison ivy, normally I would have been horrified but today I was delighted because I can move it to the patio stones and then if I spray there and a dandelion or 200 gets sprayed as well then that will be too bad for them. As long as I put up the signs I should be all legal, right, as if I'm going to bother with that. :D
I am a tree-lover so I have just given in to the moss that has taken over my lawn and I am quite happy.
The province has been using Crown Vetch for years on the sides of highways -- it's a low-growing ground cover that blooms with tiny purple flowers. Really pretty. If my lawn goes to hell, I'm going to try that.
Herbicides are not banned.
Homeowners are expressly not to use Round Up or other herbicides for weed control unless they are "Killing plants that are poisonous to the touch, such as poison ivy and giant hogweed". This is in this link [url]http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/en/land/pesticides/factsheets/fs-gardeners.pdf[/url]
We are unable to buy Weed N Feed because that had a herbicide in it which has been banned.
It's what they call a toothless law because right now they won't fine or imprison you for using a the banned substances but you will get a lecture on doing your part to save Mother Earth as I understand it. A helping hand with the weeding is not an option at this time.
I'll just ask now but if anyone in Ontario has access to one bag of Weed N Feed I'll happily take it off their hands. PM me and I'll make arrangements to have it picked up.
Basic info.
[url]http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/en/land/pesticides/factsheets/fs-gardeners.pdf[/url]
This is more detailed info.
[url]http://www.news.ontario.ca/ene/en/2009/03/ontarios-cosmetic-pesticides-ban.html[/url]
I am not using it against the law. It is readily available on the shops shelves. I even saw it at a garden market today. Also Weedout. I am in Ontario.
Herbicides are not banned.
Here's the link - I am off now to read up on this. good topic, though we don't seem to be heling Arizonamuch though :hairpull:
[URL=http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/en/land/pesticides/]http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/en/land/pesticides/[/URL]
ooops, I just rephrased your post as I hadn't read it yet. Nothing like banging the point home.
[url]http://www.canadiantire.ca/search/search_results.jsp;jsessionid=KZbTwypJnFgv5CKBH2TXZX5Qn1QN0P7Tc7Wr2TfGzsLtqtx29MZ0!989004225?bmForm=form_endeca_search&bmFormID=1247402931633&bmUID=1247402931633&bmIsForm=true&bmPrevTemplate=%2Fhome.jsp&bmHidden=OMNITURE_FROM&OMNITURE_FROM=Search&bmText=quick_search_term&quick_search_term=roundup&bmSubmit=quick_search&quick_search=Search&bmHidden=FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474396672077[/url]
It is a Herbicide, so it is not banned. Only pesticides are. I am using Round up on my backyard to combat the hundreds of weeds.
You are using it against the law unless it was for poison ivy or other poison plants. DId you use signage as per the government guidelines? :D
[url]http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/en/land/pesticides/signs.pdf[/url]
The Ontario govt. doesn't seem to understand the difference between herbicide and pesticide and use them interchangeably I've noticed.
[url]http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/en/land/pesticides/index.php[/url] and
[url]http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/en/news/2009/042201.php[/url]
How using "biopesticides and lower-risk pesticides to control weeds" escapes me. A pesticide will not kill a plant, maybe someone needs to educate those chimps at Queens Park. Someone told them dandelions were an endangered species I guess, David Suzuki I'm guessing.
JUST FOUND THIS on Ontario government site (italics are mine) : the use of [I]pesticides[/I] to control pesky [I]weeds and insects [/I]for purely cosmetic reasons is an unnecessary risk to our families and pets So, even they don't seem to know the difference between a herbicide and a pesticide . . I thought certain ones in both categories had been banned
Here's the link - I am off now to read up on this. good topic, though we don't seem to be heling Arizonamuch though :hairpull:
[URL=http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/en/land/pesticides/]http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/en/land/pesticides/[/URL]
Arizona, I feel your pain ! Our house (we moved May 2nd) had lain empty since at least last fall, and we also have the biggest maple tree I have ever seen . The leaves/keys were never raked last fall (and who knows about the one before that!), so after cleaning it all off and embarking on the biggest de-forestation project in the world, we have a massive amount of weeds and three blades of grass! To make matters even worse, there had been a round pool of some description, and there is totally no grass - or weeds - there, but the ground is like a brick ! Have you considered synthetic grass? I know that I am ... haven't looked at prices yet, though ! [URL=www.sportcourt.com]www.sportcourt.com[/URL]
Cat, I thought that these roundups and other stuffs had been re-formulated to remove the effective, but not good for you, chemicals ...The page you posted said "not available in all stores, please check for availability" or some such .....
I am not sure, but if it is only Ontario that has the ban - could we all sneak across borders (even provincial ones) and buy it????
Roundup is at CanadianTire, I saw it there this weekend.
[url]http://www.canadiantire.ca/search/search_results.jsp;jsessionid=KZbTwypJnFgv5CKBH2TXZX5Qn1QN0P7Tc7Wr2TfGzsLtqtx29MZ0!989004225?bmForm=form_endeca_search&bmFormID=1247402931633&bmUID=1247402931633&bmIsForm=true&bmPrevTemplate=%2Fhome.jsp&bmHidden=OMNITURE_FROM&OMNITURE_FROM=Search&bmText=quick_search_term&quick_search_term=roundup&bmSubmit=quick_search&quick_search=Search&bmHidden=FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474396672077[/url]
It is a Herbicide, so it is not banned. Only pesticides are. I am using Round up on my backyard to combat the hundreds of weeds.
I was going to mention the 'wet' part. Were you pulling when the ground was wet? You can get a lot more out when the ground has just had a good soak, no contest.
We can still get poisons here but it seems to me if you can't get them, it's a losing battle to try and have a traditional lawn. I know some places are just allowing clover to take over as it grows well and it's green and low. Meanwhile, rather than fighting a losing battle what about ripping the grass right out where it's bad and putting in something else? There are a lot of yards near me doing just that, no more grass at all, just lots of plants, rocks, mulch and what I really envy, they don't have to mow every week.
You know what? If the non toxic products worked that well no-one would have bought the toxic ones, chemical products were invented because the other non toxic products don't work. Sure, it's no problem to deal with 1 or 2 weeds a week but when a person inherits someone elses neglected lawn then it's a problem. Realistically I'm looking at 3 years to get it in acceptable shape, when you think about it, it's crazy. Who has the time to hand weed for that lengh of time?
I'm just waiting for the by-law people to drop by, although I'm not letting the weeds grow up to my knees or anything. I've been pulling them when they reach a certain height.
I know all about corn gluten meal and that's great but I can't use it because it will inhibit the grass seed from sprouting.
I think they should allow the use of chemicals but ration them.
The Home Depot Canada $19.99
Canadian Tire
True Value Hardware*
* = many garden centres & plant nuseries.
Works best on dandelions when the ground is wet so you get the whole root.:)
I bought that one and it doesn't work, my roots are longer than that can handle so they snap off below the ground.
I really wish they'd come up with something that isn't toxic to humans and animals. but eradicates the weeds! Even the lawncare companies can't use herbicides anymore. I worry that all the lawns in the neighborhood are soon going to look like the worst ones!
Have you tried looking for Round Up lately? It's been removed from the shelves.
The first device looks good for use on pathways but I'd be afraid of setting the llittle bit of grass I do have peering through on fire. The second one might work, the 3rd looks to be a pain trying to eject the weed. It might work for the odd one or two but I have hundreds.
I used this one [url]http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/2/OutdoorLiving/GardeningTools/CultivatorsHoes/PRD~0591035P/Yardworks%2BBasic%2BLong-Handle%2BWeeder.jsp[/url] but it breaks the root in half when you try to pull it out.
You could use Roundup, it will kill both weeds and grass, but then you could reseed.
I've been working on the front and most of the planting is done. Now to the lawn in the front. I have a mix of grass and weeds and normally a bag of Ween N Feed would have quickly solved the problem but since I cannot purchase the product anymore my only options are to completely resod or mechanically weed and oversow with more grass seed.
As completely insane as it sounds I am going to mechanically weed. It doesn't make much sense to me to pay to get the area resodded when it will become infested with weeds eventually, like throwing money away. Many of the weeds easily pull out complete with roots but the dandelions are a challenge and require a tool. I have a handheld pointy thing that works the best but went looking for something where no bending was required. I bought 3 options on long poles where you use your foot but none of them work. Does anyone know of another tool that actually works?
Nope, the lawn care companies in Ontario can't use chemicals either. If you could get your property declared a golf course you'd be home free though - they are still allowed the good stuff! Basically we are to embrace the weeds now. According to many comments on the Toronto Star website today, weeds are beautiful and should be appreciated. Unfortunately, if you disagree, unless you have one heck of a sturdy lawn (and a sturdy back to pull the weeds) ultimately the weeds are probably going to win - for the simple reason that if not everyone is as gung ho as you, their weeds are going to spread to your yard. There is one house I can see from my lawn that is a solid carpet of dandylions about 18 inches high. It makes me cry, as I futilely dig and pull and sweat over my own yard! Dandylions and other broad leaf weeds do eventually choke out grass. Apparently they also don't contribute to the cleaning of the air as much as grass does, and they also make the soil less inhabitable for other plants. So that is why on abandonned lots you just see weeds and bare earth. The bare earth creates further problems due to erosion. So although we have provided protection from chemicals now, unfortunately we have not come up with good solutions on how to deal with the problems that leaves, particularly in urban areas. Most "natural" solutions seem to either be also toxic to grass, which is sort of counter productive - things like vinegar and boiling water, and most (including "organic" pesticides) while they do kill off the green tops of broadleaf weeds, do not kill or damage the roots, meaning fairly quick regrowth in the same spot. Its frustrating and a challenge. I'm hopeful that someone will come up with a solution that allows us to have tidy and attractive urban spaces without carcinogens. And soon!!
I didn't know that about the lawn care companies, that's a great idea. However I just noticed today that one of my neighbours has not mowed their weed patch at all this season. So there is not much point in paying to get my dream lawn only to have weed seeds blowing all around.
As far as I know, the lawn care companies have not been banned (here in Ontario) from using the effective, but apparently obnoxious and dangerous, chemicals, so it may be worth talking to a lawn care company
Everything I've ever heard says the best defense is a really healthy lawn. If you have the energy you might want to dig out as many of the weeds as you can and use the patch grass recipe from the Cityline site. You'll have to be vigilant with pulling the things as you see them but as your grass gets better the weeds will lose out. It can take a couple of seasons getting the lawn thick and healthy enough to fend them off.
I tried vinegar on some weeds on my parking pad last year and it did burn them but it didn't solve the problem so I am not sure what the answer is other than strangling each and every one of them or keeping them mowed and just saying 'uncle'.