Another very hard day for me...and another trip to the Vet this am.
Mocha (our Choc. Lab) spent several days in the kennel last weekend while we were away and has come home not in great shape. I feel nothing but guilt wondering if she slipped or if something happened to her.
Last couple of days she's refusing to do the stairs and stays on the main floor.(our family room on 2nd floor and bedroom where we sleep on 3rd) She won't get up to greet us-very unusual for her.
She whimpers when she lays down or tries to stand.She's been on medication since last Fall for pain/arthritis which seemed to be working well. It's breaking my heart:cry:
How do you know when it might soon be time? I'm in denial and don't want to deal with it and DH says I have to accept it. Do I wait and be hopeful that once it warms up she might be better again?? Sorry...maybe I'm just 'venting' sort of speak. I just look at her and cry. I can't accept that just last week she was great and now struggling with every step.
Trying more meds we got today. I think Macsmom mentioned acupuncture before and I'm willing to try anything. I also don't want her to suffer...
Is pain management fair??
Any guidance out there from others that may have gone through this?
Thanks,
L.
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If you want to check this one out Lisa, it's the one I used that I can't say enough good about. It's called "Best in Show Enhanced" - I know - I didn't like the name either - but oh well, what counts is how it works.
It's Glucosamine, MSM, Vitamins, Minerals, Amino Acids and Digestive Enzymes which are so important to help the dogs body absorb and use all of the above. I think they might actually be why it works so well. It contains no artificial flavoring, sweeteners or colouring and is specifically formulated for dogs.
It's made in Abbotsford, BC, by SciencePure Nutraceuticals Inc. Phone toll free 1-877-533-9163 - I'm sure they can tell you who carries it near you or ship it to you.
The list of vitamins and minerals is pretty long - so if you want more info let me know.
Hi Lisa I don't know if this product would work for Mocha but take a look at this web site. this is supposed to be an awsome product. [url]www.dinovite.com[/url]
Hope Mocha is feeling better
Call me pessimistic, I'd be very surprised if the kennel admitted to any oversight on their part. Arthritis needs to be excercised daily to keep the joints from seizing up and if she missed her meds then that would explain a lot. I know it sometimes cannot be helped but I never board pets on medication for that very reason. I will make sure a family member can take care of the animal in my absence. It has meant a few sacrifices but to be honest I feel I have more peace of mind and don't even think about those missed opportunities but that's just me.
Twelve is not that old for a lab so I would imagine she has more than a few good years left in her. From someone who recently had to have their old dog put to sleep it was rather apparent at the end when she had a seizure on top of the other stuff. I had noticed a decline and she was having more bad days than good and I was bracing myself but I took too long and she couldn't wait. I supose that's something I will have to live with but I will know better next time.
Thanks all for the positive thoughts...she's doing much better:)
Wolfbaby-Thanks for your insight also. It was more than likely a drafty kennel and perhaps forgotten medication. She's been so much better in the past week. Stairs still a challenge, but I can accept that. (I just saw info on Lyme's and thought 'What If??')
We are also giving her 'people' glucosamine... will inquire about it in powder format if it can work that much better for her.
Janet-Hoping Sandy & Mocha are both with us for a while yet!!
With hugs from Mocha...
I'm glad she is doing better Lisa. If you have more questions about Lymes, I may be able to help - since I have it I'm fairly knowledgable about it - it's one way to get educated!
I don't think what you describe sounds like Lymes though - it sounds more like something acute to me - which means it just needs a little time to heal to get her back to where she was. Whether it was a drafty kennel that flared the arthritis or a sprain - it will improve now that she is home with you.
There is a glucosamine product that you can get that is made specifically for dogs. It's a powder, and you sprinkle a little on their food each feeding. It works way better for dogs than the human product does, and I can highly recommend it from personal experience. It cost about $70.00 but one tin will last pretty close to a year, and it will replace a lot of what the vet has her on with fewer side effects. If you give her human product be careful of the "other ingredients" in the capsule - some of them are bad for dogs, including such things as sodium.
The other thing that helps joints is knox gelatin. The stuff you get in the grocery store - just sprinkle on her food, a packet a feeding. She can stay on it forever - and it helps human joints too. Just don't put it in her water - I tried that and my dogs were so puzzled why their water looked normal but was solid when they tried to "drink" it - lmao.
I hope she keeps improving.
im glad to hear that Mocha is doing somewhat better, i know how you feel, our sandy is just past 13 years old and we know the day will come when he will no longer be with us and its hard to even think about that, so i just enjoy every day we have with him. That is all anyone can do. :)
smiles
janet
Thanks for asking Wolfbaby.
She's doing better than a week ago, but still not as good as a couple of weeks ago before she went to the kennel. Not that it was tested, but Vet says Lyme's unlikely. I think I have to face the hard facts that she's a 12 year old Lab struggling with arthritis. I keep thinking the kennel may not have walked her as often as they should have and maybe forgot some medication...but who knows for sure. I did call the kennel and they had no report indicated in the 'Incidents' book. If only dogs could talk!
The Vet has increased her painkillers (and our spending!) from 2 to 3 Tramadol/day and her Metacam (anti-inflammatory) has stayed the same. She was also put on an antibiotic for the sore and another painkiller for several days (Gabapantin-sp?)
Poor Moch...she's probably stoned half the day:eek:
Anyways, she's not whimpering any longer when getting up or laying down and does very well out on her (shorter) walks. She's certainly more upbeat than she was and back to wagging her tail all the time. Taking stairs another matter. (a challenge)..but guess that is to be expected at this stage.
I heard about another painkiller that is an injenction on a monthly basis (trying to recall name) and will be asking my vet about this-follow up scheduled for next week.
Fingers & paws crossed that she'll be with us a while longer:)
Oh I'm so sorry.
I took out everything I wrote because I just noticed your post was almost 2 weeks ago. Can you give us an update?
I'm doing some research on-line and now am officially flipping out!!
DBD-I never would have even guessed at a tick bourne illness, but my God-Just read about Lyme disease and am thinking that could be it. (DH says I do far too much self diagnosis)
Yes, Mocha is old and suffers from arthritis but to go from being able to get around and a little difficulty on stairs to not being able to stand without crying and walking while trying to lift back legs...all a change in less than 4 days. Can that be normal??
Anyway-we discovered a 'sore' under her belly yesterday. Looked like an inverted nipple with a hole in the middle. Vet we took her to didn't know what it was, but precribed some antibiotics along with the increased pain meds.(Our reg. vet not in)
As I'm reading about Lyme, it talks to sudden onset of limping/severe weakness (Check), sore (check), obsessive/compulive behaviour such as licking fur (Check-she's been doing that quite a bit)
Could it be?? Has anyone ever had a pet with Lyme disease or other tick bourne illness before?
I'm calling vet tomorrow am...likely another expensive one as it'll be emergency clinic. (Family day holiday here in ON)
Oh...these pets that steal our hearts. I'll be up all night wondering about it...
Thanks for all the well-wishes...will keep you posted.
DBD-thanks for heads up on tick-borne illness...you never know!! Bring on the tests...I want my sweet girl to get better!!!
Hi Lisa...I'm sorry to hear about Mocha's illness....I wish you all the best & hope
he starts to feel better soon.
I just went back and found your post from June when the vet suspected Cushing's. Given this seems to still not be solved I wonder if you have considered seeing another vet for a second opinion. If you can, I'd take copies of all the previous blood tests etc. and do that. You should ask your vet if they know of someone who specializes in older dogs, endocrinology, auto-immune problems, arthritis, or anything Mocha might come under. Even my vet who is known as a great diagnostician, has more than 20 years experience, and who I trust totally missed it in my dog until it was too late just because they don't see if very often.
Does Mocha have any other symptoms of it at all other than the weak hind legs? (thirsty, huge appetite, hot/panting, loss of bladder control, coat change, pot belly, personality changes, not social or interested in things she used to like?).
Maybe some new x-rays or ultra-sound would show if there has been some change since the last ones that would give you some clues. I don't know, but I think if there is someone around who has more of a specialty in this stuff they would be worth seeing.
I just did a little googling and one thing that came up as seeming to be like a progressive arthritis was a tick born illness.. any chance of that?
Also, have you looked up side effects of the drugs? I don't know anything about those but it's not that unusual for some dogs to develop things like ulcers and other issues which can cause pain in their tummies. That might be why she is whimpering too, I don't know but I'd be trying to look at all the angles until someone could come up with some answers about what is happening.
I hope you do find out what is up. It's just so hard when you don't know what you are dealing with or what to do.
Thanks so much DBD for the detailed feedback...here's a virtual hug for you:)
We went through so much with her last summer...
Cushings did come up a couple of times and we've had blood work done on a couple of occasions to test. At one point, vet was pretty sure that's what is was, but the 2nd testing came back negative. I guess it is very difficult to diagnose...so who knows. Maybe it warrants re-testing.
She's laying low tonight. Seems to be able to walk ok, just really stuggling with getting up from a lying down position and that 1st step seems to be really painful. (Back hind leg leaning inward-very hesitant to put any weight on it and the whimpering. So hard to watch her...)
She's definitely lost muscle in her back end legs.
Mocha has been on Tramadol and Metacam for months and as of today, increasing the dosage on Tramadol + a new one to try (can't remember name-it's downstairs) Getting costly @ $400/mth for pills. (Hate to see what it will run with new medication-they just gave us a few sample pills today)
Will be returning to the Vet mid-week for follow up.
Will keep you posted...
Many thanks again for your experience and thoughts!!
Lisa
Oh boy, that is a hard one. It's so hard to know but I hope you have a really great vet who you can trust to give you their honest opinion (vs just wanting to try things that cost money or taking the easy way out which is what I have hit twice at an emerg vets when it wasn't necessary and thank heavens I didn't listen to them).
My attitude would be finding out what is up (arthritis, back hurt, whatever) and what can be done. If it's an injury, will it heal? If it's a condition, can it be controlled or treated so the dog isn't in pain. How is the dog's quality of life when everything reasonable is being done? She may have a couple of things going on just like we get when we age so you need to try various things sometimes. Some cities have doggie rehab pools now and they are great for helping them feel better while keeping their strength doing non-weight bearing things.
With my last dog she had arthritis and glucosamine really helped a lot. It takes about 3 weeks to see the full effect but it really helped (so much so I started taking it and can say it is almost like your joints get oiled and stop grinding and popping, great stuff). I just used the human version and broke capsules into tomato juice or milk which she loved (although it had to be whipped in with one of those little hand blender things because the powder itself is bitter). They also have liquid versions out now. The real tell was originally it took her a while to get going, she had trouble getting up after lieing down and then one day, it was no big deal and I knew the glucosamine was working. That dog weighed 40 lbs and took a 500 dose capsule at first and then two/day. They can't hurt and it flushes out of their system daily so you can increase without much problem. You can also get it with MSM in it which is good for inflammation but you have to watch to make sure they are still getting a full blast of the glucosamine because the dose is usually lower when other things come with it.
Then at one point she couldn't even hold herself to drink out of her favourite water dish... the one in the bathroom. She'd try and get up and just fall back again. She couldn't do the stairs either without whimpering. Turned out to be a back problem so she got pain killers that I used the days she needed and I didn't let her jump or do stairs and such until she was feeling better and that was okay although a bit more trouble for me lifting her sometimes.
Some vets are really good at figuring this stuff out and mine runs his fingertips along the dog's sides. If they flinch, they are in pain in their mid section. If they flinch just when the back legs are moved, it's probably a problem in that area and so on. Even Eb got t-boned in the park and I thought she was a little off and he found the problem to be her back and told me they are just like us when their backs are hurt or they just over do it. A few pain killers, some good back rubs, and keeping her quiet seemed to fix that.
Now the hard stuff... with my last dog, her back end kept getting weaker and weaker. It wasn't arthritis alone or her back anymore, she was losing muscle. I thought she was just getting old but after some vet visits and trying a few things we realized she had Cushings. It's a condition of older dogs that makes them seem old and get very weak in that hind end. I don't know that is what you are dealing with since you mentioned whimpering and Cushings is not painful, it's just frustrating for the dog. It also doesn't come on suddenly and seems yours has so that sounds more like an injury to me.
I can tell you my vet is a real humanitarian who would never push a dog if they are in pain, but I saw him with mine and with others. I saw a dog almost literally dragged into his office because it couldn't walk and they figured that was it. The vet said not yet, gave it a shot of some painkillers and sent them off with a 'this dog deserves to see spring and lay in the sun just a few more times'. That shot got it on it's feet again, and off they went to give it some time to wait for spring. With mine when it was apparent no treatment was going to help and it was just a matter of time, I had an open invitation to come in any time I just wasn't sure (no charge either). He would take a look to tell me if she was in pain, or if it was time or not, and I can tell you I was in there almost daily at the end because I just didn't trust myself knowing I was wanting that dog around at all costs.
Now the trust part with the vet is so important. As I said I was not wanting that dog to go and after seeing my vet one day who said 'nothing we can do but wait to see when she's ready' I ran off to another for a second opinion. He did a full check and sold me a bunch of stuff. Next morning she wasn't good (I hadn't given her any of the new meds), took her to my vet again and she died about an hour later (on her own). Now my vet had known that was going to happen the day before but hadn't told me because she wasn't in pain but she was in heart failure from the Cushings. The second vet probably also knew but still sold me $150 worth of stuff (I made him take it back) but he went for making a sale knowing there as no point. Those are the types of vets I have zero tolerance for because you can't trust them.
So have a chat with the vet, a real hard one. Listen to your gut. You have to believe/trust them to be doing what's best for the dog (vs them checking out your wallet), see another until you know you are dealing with someone who will be honest with you and do what is in the dog's best interest, one way or another. They will try and find out how the dog is living, what you can and can't do (like lifting the dog a lot), and then give you their opinion. As I mentioned, twice in that last dog's life the emerg wanted to euthanize instead of treat and twice I got her out of there and back to her vet. Both times they were just wrong, plain and simple as she had a good quality of life after being treated(and both times they had misdiagnosed what was going on too, so that didn't help at all) but my gut had told me they were off base and I am glad I listened to it. When it truly was coming to the end I was too panicked to listen to my gut and that was when I knew I could count on my vet (because we had already had a really good talk about what was what) and so I did.
I hope you find out you just have something there that needs some meds and time and your dog gets to enjoy themselves again. Paws crossed.