Wow, you can find anything on the Net!! Did you know that there's actually an official interior designer act/bill?! In June 2006, the Legislative Assembly of Ontario passed Bill 121, which is intended to "regulate the practice of interior design in Ontario in the public interest." Subsection 4(2) is interesting:
[I]Subsection 4 (2) of the Bill prohibits a person from using the designation "interior designer" or "interior design", and their French equivalents, unless the person is a person registered by the Association, an architect or another authorized person. Section 6 provides that it is an offence for a person to engage in the practice of interior design unless the person is a registered practitioner or an architect, professional engineer or other authorized person.[/I]
So if you're looking to hire an interior designer (either in Ontario or elsewhere), it would be worthwhile to verify that he or she really IS an interior designer with the proper schooling and credentials. Someone with the designation Designer (not preceded by "Interior") or Principal is most likely NOT an accredited interior designer.
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designers need to know building codes and a lot of stuff most don't think about
such as can that 3rd floor former attic carry the weight of that bathtub and the heavy stone tile etc etc
Recourse, not really. I guess if we'd checked it out there may have been something we could have done but she was quite good about it in the end. I think because she was incredibly embarassed by all the slamming comments and million questions made the contractor had for her.
We were shocked with her lack of knowledge because she presented herself as this professional designer and had really impressive portfolio but when it came down to it she had no idea about construction or anything technical. At one point I was actually embarassed for her because when the contractors would ask her how she wanted things built, she had no real answer for them. She just tried to talk her way out of it or change the subject to something else or imply it was the contractors job to do it. It was interesting to witness to say the least.
I hope this law spreads to the rest of Canada so noone else has to deal with what we did.
Throw a hissy fit and yell at the people who are trying to do the job right and put the blame on everyone else :D
avalon, sorry to hear about your bad remodel experience. That's a perfect example of how someone claiming to be something that they aren't can cause an innocent person a lot of time and money and grief. Did you have any recourse against the alleged interior designer?? At least you found a good architect with the proper support team in the end.
I am with you dustbunnydiva. I have a few couses under my belt in both print and web design, but I got my education mostly through experience. 10 year in the print industry and my files are also correctly formatted and usable in any case as long as I know what they are to be used for. In fact, I spend a great deal of my time fixing the files of people that have been through their courses. Most employers now days also recognize experience instead of schooling for working in the print industry as being slightly more important.
I think largely it comes down to being able to understand programs, formats, and design principals and those of us with the passion to learn it for ourselves sometimes end up with a better education for it. I learned from some very gifted and knowlegeable people, most of whom had not been through the course either.
My employer calls us graphic designers, because we do the work of graphic designers. I don't really know what else to call it so that is what I say too. Typesetter isn't correct, Desktop Publishing has Microsoft connotations (yuck) so I refuse to use that.
I listen to my customers and deliver within budget and don't waste time with things they won't be happy with. I ask very leading questions and listen carefully. I have never had a customer walk away empty handed or unable to use my files.
Boy have I heard this complaint before. A dozen years ago when I was paying attention to schools and training one of the biggest schools here in AB had no intention of bringing in computers for the graphic design students. The grads were absolutely out in the cold when it came to finding work or being able to function.
There were the employers and printers all working from computer and the grads couldn't navigate their way through email. So now they have computers and software and still getting printing done properly is a constant problem. They also can't spell resume nevemind produce one, and have no clue how to adapt when given limitations of budget on a job. So not very well equipped on the practical stuff. Half the problem is what they do teach, the students think is boring and unnecessary so they either don't pay attention or don't show up for those classes. I swear kids should have to go and work for two years before wasting time and money at school because some just have no concept of what is important and then they are SOL after they graduate.
As a feather in my own cap, I am one of the hacks the Graphic Designers don't like because I got my training in other ways than the 4 year program, but from the first file I ever had printed, mine have been clean. Meanwhile, I don't call myself a graphic designer either just because I do understand the concept of titles.
For the life of me, I don't understand how the kids coming out are supposed to survive when they can't get their stuff printed properly but then I've also watched them freak out and pull a tantrum when someone says they need it brought in on budget and 2 colours one of which is their corporate colour. Heavens, what's a person to do when they can't do whatever they want?
We had the pleasure of seeing the difference between designer and decorator with our remodal last year. We hired what we thought to be a designer to redo our kitchen, main bathroom and some bookcases/built-ins for the family room. HUGE mistake! After looking at many different designs for our kitchen we finally agreed on one to go ahead with, only to discover that the ideas worked great on her story boards but not technically. The design had to be totally changed from top to bottom because she had some, but not enough technical knowledge as to how things were constructed or restrainsts with the plumbing and electrical.
Needless to say, she was fired and we hired an architect who does primarily residential stuff to take her concept and put it into reality. VERY frustrating and costly learning lesson! She was good at choosing materials and colours but had no real construction knowledge so the trades couldn't understand her "sketches" as they called them. Our architect said that decorators posing as designers is a common problem that they, along with registered interior designers are often left to clean up. Interestingly, our architect had an interior designer and a decorator on staff to manage the project so it made the whole process much smoother. She also told us that if we needed to find a real interior designer to check with the Interior Designers of Canada to get referrals for our area.
Obviously I'm agree with legistlation and if it had been in place last year, we would have saved time, money and the headache!
BJ, that's the approach that more designers and decorators need to take -- to work within the constraints of the client's budget. And to listen to and respect the client's likes and dislikes, of course.
The skill and natural talent to be able to do any kind of creative work (be it interior design or graphic design or otherwise) is certainly a good start. But as BJ and MrsModern said, you need to learn how to use your skills and talents in a practical way.
The bottom line is, this bill seems like it will protect consumers from being taken by people who claim to be interior designers but aren't, and to ensure that only people who are qualified to be interior designers perform interior design work. That's not really a bad thing.
Well you can bet the drive behind most legislation, one way or another is money. It always is whether to save or allot, someone always benefits finacially and usually someone always loses it too. That's politics.
Because I have worked in the gov't end of employment and training I can tell you there could be various factions at work here be it the gov'ts themselves finding something too administratively heavy to deal with (maybe the paperwork to do with the other bill you mentioned), the schools, or the trade associations. Often they work together if they feel something needs addressing.
It's also fine lines when it comes to occupations that require some standards be set and who will set them. Again, if you think of the three sectors working to sort it out, sometimes it's the schools who end up setting the criteria, sometimes it's the gov't, sometimes it's the associations, and sometimes it's a combination.
Here for instance, the Province takes care of the trades, the associations and schools take care of many medical occupations, and there are hundreds of other combinations depending on the occupation and who has the capacity to watch over it.
The other side of the coin is when the feeling is consumers can watch out for themselves. There you will find a real split between people believing they should be responsible for themselves and others who believe there should be someone else who has their backs. Where a person stands there probably has a lot to do with whether they have lost money somewhere along the way because they assumed something (be it a schools credentials before they took a course or a disaster because they hired someone less than qualified).
It does appear in this case that there is some pressure as Ontario is not the only one putting this particular type of bill through. Only those close to it could say what the rationale or drive behind it is. Personally I don't see a problem and think it will probably work like a lot of other groups who are monitored by their own association. Are their drawbacks? Sure, there is never a perfect solution so they shoot for what seems to be doable.
On the face of it, if there is another law in place, it would appear it may not be working or they wouldn't bother to mess with it. Maybe the other provinces were shooting for a standard and Bill 121 reflects that in an effort to make a National standard. There will always be people working under the table but more and more the public seems to feel the need to be sure that when someone takes on a particular title, they have the skills/abilities and education that seems to go along with it. My guess is that is what they are after.
Thanks for posting that blurb about Ryerson, Pearl. That's my old university and it is definitely one of the best ones in its field in the country, if not North America.
I couldn't agree more. I have had graphic designs that cost way to much to produce, as lovely as they are, they just were no9t practical to print cost-wise. I have had to modify these lovely designs with the artist so that they could be printed at a reasonable cost.
It is the same in the decorating industry - would you suggest a $200/ m fabric to someone with a modest budget to recover a sofa? I think not , no matter how perfect the fabric is.
I mentioned graphic designers going for the same thing. Anyone who chooses at the moment, can call themselves a graphic designer which annoys to no end those who took the appropriate courses for 4 years. In this case, it makes a difference pretty much only to those who have the actual degree in trying to differentiate themselves from those they consider to be hacks. Truth is, graphic design is very much design/art/creativity which can be done by anyone with the talent. There is no worry of safety or the type of technical issues which a structure can present but the arguement for assuring customers they will at least have some level of expertise is why they want the designation. Whether they will ever get it or not I don't know. I can't see it happening unless someone can come up with a reason there might be a public safety issue. With the Interior Designers, maybe that time is now with the growth in renovations so apparent.
What ticks most of us in the print industry is the "graphic designers" that come out of school with absolutely no practical knowlege of how to make their designs print well or properly. While there may not be the worry of anything falling down, there is the worry of not being able to use a file you just paid someone hundreds of dollars to create - which I see happen quite a bit. It takes quite a bit more than talent and creativity to actually make a satisfactory product. There is a lot of technical skill and knowledge that needs to accompany it.
I believe is the driving force behind this bill. At best, it is a money grab as those who are or are not accredited with the designation "Interior Designer" will use appropriate trades and contractors for the actual work anyway. (This is another point of contention-working for cash to beat paying tax) I had a design graduate ask me if I was an ARIDO member and I said no. It would be much more beneficial to her to get her BCIN number which falls under Bill 124 in the building and renovation industry than put the effort in and to pay to become an ARIDO member where the fees per year, I hear, are exhorbitant. She would still need the BCIN number to have her drawings approved for the building permit or have someone - an architect approve her drawings anyway - WHY?
FYI - Bill 124 also states that ANY changes must be re-stamped with the BCIN number before it can be implemented. So, if you decided to change your building plans in the middle of building and have something re-drawn up - you are halted until the changes can be stamped and approved with a BCIN # - best to make all your changes BEFORE you start to build. The builidng and renovation industry is not happy about this process, as it slows down the work and costs the builders/renovators time an dmoney to re-approve the changes.
She was under the impression that she was able to design and build a complete home - not so if you read Bill 124 which regulates the design and plannning of buildings for obtaining permits to actually get the work done.
I also believe that a lot of this comes from the fact that the underground economy is avoiding paying taxes by doing cash under the table projects. See - MIke Homes - and the poor results of fly- by-night operators out for a fast buck and not equipped to handle the projects that they verbally contract for.
GET IT IN WRITING....PLAIN AND SIMPLE
I do not know where all this controversy started, but I do think that someone is lining their pockets over it.
The best way to find a company/individual to work with is by solid referrals, making sure that they carry insurance, will charge you the tax, interviewing them and taking time to do your homework for the work you need done. If it is too good to be true and they promise you everything you want - it likely is not going to happen.No one is going to refer someone that they do not know or that has done shoddy work for them. Empowered consumers are the best clients, as well.
BJDec, as someone working in the design/decor industry -- do you think this bill is necessary, and will it benefit both designers & decorators and their clients?? It seems to me that the only people who would oppose it are those who don't have the proper accreditation, but call themselves interior designers and/or what they do interior design.
I am proud to be called an Interior Decorator. I love helping my clients with the decoration of the space, colours, especially and fabrics along with the arrangement of the furnishings.
[B]Ryerson University:[/B]
Few in Canada offering a four-year university degree in Interior Design. Our program stresses innovative design thinking, and the meaningful examination of design issues in contemporary life. Our educational philosophy encourages interdisciplinary studies and values diversity because responsible design of the constructed environment depends on a thorough knowledge of the arts, and sciences. From hands-on to theoretical explorations, from studio to lecture hall, from historical perspectives to futuristic thinking, our program expects students to become socially and environmentally responsible, culturally aware and committed to excellence. We believe that pragmatic and functional considerations, as well as technological advancements, must always be informed by a poetic sensibility and sensitivity to space. Interior Design is a profession and much more: designers make places for people, contribute to their wellbeing, and support their values, memories and dreams.
A Master of Fine Arts in Interdisciplinary Studies is planned for the near future with a field choice in Interior Design (post professional).
[B]Humber College[/B]:
Four semesters diploma
Become a specialist in décor - capable of translating complex wants and needs into unique yet functional spaces reflecting client expectations. Learn how to employ the tools of colour, light and texture, apply design planning theories, and select appropriate finishes, materials, textiles, objects d'art, and other visual elements. A special focus on business for the decoration industry informs students on a variety of verbal and graphic methods of presentation and communication such as business forms, schedule methods, and specifications. They also learn a variety of methods and techniques to create computer-generated drafting, manual drafting and sketching. Additional topics include the Ontario Building Code, barrier free environments, and sustainable material issues. To round out their learning base, students also explore mechanical, electrical and plumbing services. :)
Thanks Peral-Girl I was sure I understood the difference but you explained it well. I suppose a House Stager comes under the title as a decorator.
Pearl thanks for posting that as it does show the difference quite plainly. Seems there is indeed much more technical knowledge under Designer and that Decorator is absolutely qualified to do the type of work most of us would be looking for.
Interior Design vs. Interior Decorating
Although the terms interior decorating and interior design are similar, and thus are often used interchangeably, there are many differences between the two. If you are considering a career in design, it is extremely important that you understand each title so that you can make the appropriate decision about your education and your career.
[COLOR=SeaGreen]Interior Design [/COLOR] requires professional experience and training because to truly call yourself an interior designer, you must be certified. There are still people who refer to themselves as interior designers without the proper qualifications, but it is becoming increasingly more difficult to legally do this; in 18 states it is explicitly against the law to call yourself an interior designer if you are not certified. In order to become certified, you must pass an exam administered by the National Council for Interior Design Qualification (NCIDQ), which applies to both the U.S. and Canada. After passing this exam, an interior designer must also follow the professional standards set by the American Society of Interior Designers. An interior decorator, on the other hand, is not subject to all of these specifications.
[COLOR=SeaGreen]Interior Decorators [/COLOR] require no formal education, but in most cases it's necessary. Since this is the case, you could start working as an interior decorator today, but there is still a lot you need to know. Interior decorators typically work with the insides of buildings including homes and businesses and focus mainly on the surface decorations. They may be working with an entire building or just a single room and work to make the space aesthetically pleasing. To do so, interior designers concentrate on space-planning (layout), color schemes, furniture, paint, wallpaper, window coverings, fabrics, flooring, carpeting, lighting, art, etc. Because you are working with clients' living spaces, your main goal as an interior designer should be your client's approval of (and excitement for) your decorations. In order to achieve this, you will need to be able to review and measure space, prepare room layout proposals, obtain cost estimates, present samples to clients, arrange and oversee painting, wallpapering, flooring, etc., select and purchase furnishings and accessories, and much more.
An Interior Designer needs a more specific skill set. Their job can include interior decoration, but also extends to the actual buildings as well. The NCIDQ definition of an interior designer's objective is, "to enhance the function and quality of interior spaces for the purpose of improving the quality of life, increasing productivity, and protecting the health, safety, and welfare of the public." Interior designers can work in homes, office buildings, airport terminals, hospitals, manufacturing plants, government institutions, etc. and must be prepared to: analyze clients' needs, goals, and safety requirements; create working illustrations and specifications in compliance with universal accessibility guidelines and other applicable codes; work closely with other licensed professionals such as mechanics, electricians, and load-bearing designers. Finally, interior designers, who typically work for furniture and home furnishings stores, interior design services and architectural firms, or independently as freelance designers, must explicitly understand: flame spread ratings, smoke toxicity, and fire rating classifications and materials; space planning for public and private facilities; national, state, and local building codes; ergonomics, which is the application of scientific information concerning humans to the design of a space; the quality and quantity of lighting a room requires; and acoustics and sound transmission.
smiles
janetc
LOL ... Oh Janetc.. you wouldn't be talking specifically about someone now would you... LOL
Well, I do think designers and decorators can offer a valuable service -- provided they work with their clients and design/decorate rooms for them that are suitable to their lifestyle, likes and dislikes, budget, etc. Some people just need a bit of direction and guidance to get them on the right decorating track. Nobody wants to spend big bucks on yards and yards of fabric at $100 a yard to make curtains, only to discover after the fact that the colour or pattern or whatever doesn't work with the room. So if you end up paying a designer/decorator a few hundred bucks to help you make the right choices, you'll likely save money (as well as time and effort) in the long run.
But yes, a designer/decorator charging a client for her services, and then insulting the client's decor and ramming her likes and dislikes down the client's throat and telling the client that they MUST do this and HAVE to do that and insisting that they buy items that are out of their budget.... that's just plain inconsiderate and unprofessional. And very 5-year-oldish :D
What I think is the most hysterical of all, is that really, when it comes down to it, is interior design a real occupation? :D You charge people to re-arrange their furniture and force your opinion down their throat. I did that when I was 5 :D
I did a search and noticed there is other legislation going through in other provinces on this as well. It's this type of legislation which has sorted the differences in many occupations from apprentices to journeymen, practitioners to doctors, etc and so on. It's nothing new but it does indicate there is a level of liability here that needs to be addressed.
If under the definition, Interior Designer has the education/training/experience to do strutural changes, then that is quite a different knowledge base to the artistic/creative side (the difference between a 2 and 4 year course perhaps?). It's also the one that clients/customers have to be aware of so they know to hire the architects or engineers they need to ensure things are done properly. Kitchens are a perfect example. Most people understand they must have an Interior Designer with the changes made to plumbing and electrical but when it comes to doing the basement...well, they may have a decorator and believe they do know about the supports and such they are moving around.
The other thing I think it may help is the Interior Decorator. With all the crap on TV blurring things and the number of shows labelling thier decorators as designers somehow it smacks of a slap against decorators. To me, they have much in common but the line is drawn at the technical knowledge. For whatever reason, the term decorator is being ignored or downgraded when there is no reason for it...well other than some snobbery I guess. Maybe this will convince the producers of shows to call it as it is instead of implying everyone is a designer when they are decorators. Then people can see and understand the difference and know who they need to hire for particular work and be confident that if someone says they are an Interior Designer, they do indeed have that knowledge and are not just calling themselves something that is better for marketing. They will also know the true scope of a decorator and the value of their skills.
I mentioned graphic designers going for the same thing. Anyone who chooses at the moment, can call themselves a graphic designer which annoys to no end those who took the appropriate courses for 4 years. In this case, it makes a difference pretty much only to those who have the actual degree in trying to differentiate themselves from those they consider to be hacks. Truth is, graphic design is very much design/art/creativity which can be done by anyone with the talent. There is no worry of safety or the type of technical issues which a structure can present but the arguement for assuring customers they will at least have some level of expertise is why they want the designation. Whether they will ever get it or not I don't know. I can't see it happening unless someone can come up with a reason there might be a public safety issue. With the Interior Designers, maybe that time is now with the growth in renovations so apparent.
Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to add this thought as well:
The clarification of designer and decorator also helps the client to choose the right professional for their project. If they are seeking help to make over their home or business and don't plan to make structural changes, then a designer's services (along with their payscale) aren't necessary.
If you're looking to knock out walls and create an addition onto your kitchen or add a second storey to your house, you're going to need a designer.
None of this is to belittle the decorator while placing the designer on a pedestal. This is simply about industry standards.
I would think that even with something as benign sounding as furniture design, there are industry standards to meet there as well. An accredited designer may not be needed to design a cockail table, but surely there are restrictions and guidelines that have to be met to design a crib for your baby.
There's where industry standards become the consumer's friend, and the professional's safety net. Accidents or injuries caused by the designed item are the responsibility of the designer personally, unless they specified the manufacture of the item according to industry standards.
I'm sure there are probably loopholes that have left some in the industry with twisted knickers, but I think that happens when new regulations are beginning to be put in place. One has to step back and look at the bigger picture to appreciate it's a step in the right direction for everyone.
I suppose one could argue that it's the tradesperson (electrician, plumber etc.) who is ultimately making the "life threatening" decisions made during a reno, so it doesn't really matter if the self-imposed designer knows anything about building codes or not.
I'd like to think of this clarification of designation as a "safety net" though, and I think it it DOES matter.
Sure, a designer could potentially hire a tradesperson who was operating under a false designation, but an accredited designer should be able to catch on when her specifications were not being carried out to code. Just as a "surly contractor" can repeatedly point out the "designer's" orders can't be carried out because they're blatant code violations.
So the designation works both ways: accredited tradesperson catches her ignorance, or she can catch his.
In the end, it's client /general public that wins, but also the professionals in the that field. The regulations are intended to protect the consumer AND the professional. An industry with no standards is likely to find itself without consumers over time. And who wins if that happens???
but some that think they are superior will not think any law should apply to them......a law would be like acid to them
smiles
janetc
That's the exact analogy I was thinking of. Take a nurse and a surgeon -- both are trained to work in the medical field and both have medical knowledge and skills. But I certainly wouldn't let the nurse perform open heart surgery on me. I want the surgeon who has the proper education and know-how to operate on my heart.
OK, so interior design and heart surgery aren't quite the same thing. But as DBD said, if somebody who claims to be a designer makes structural changes to a building, and then that building collapses.... well, that has as much potential to kill a person as a botched heart operation.
The bottom line is, this bill is designed (oops, bad pun!!) to protect consumers from people who claim to be something they're not. And that isn't a bad thing.
that isnt such a bad thing....if i were hiring someone under the assumption that they were certified or had a degree in the field, only to learn that they really didnt have the proper credentials or schooling.......i would be ticked off to think i was mislead. Think about it, it is like a person doing a surgery on you that isnt a dr or surgeon but led you to believe they were. Now, if the person was up front and laid it out as to what schooling they had, than so be it....it would be i that is taking a risk. I think it is shameful to mislead people, and even more shameful for the ones who have busted thier butt in school earning these degrees.
smiles'
janetc
Well it's probably about time. The same thing is going on with graphic designers trying to get an official designation but I think it's a lot more important with Interior Designers. Thinking someone can just call themselves that without having the training to do the structural type changes some renovations require could be very costly and dangerous. I sure wouldn't want to think I had a designer redesigning my electrical, walls, and such and then find out I didn't.
As well if someone can label themselves higher than their real qualifications, they can charge more than they probably rightfully should.
Now I wonder how many of the famous or well known, commonly believed to be Interior designers, are really more properly called decorators and just letting people believe they have the higher accreditation.