POSTED: May 22, 2008 by Pearl_girl
This is one option LOL
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OK
My husband and I are white collar workers in Automotive. Here are the facts: Blue collar workers on the floor that are paid hourly can take home over 100K a year when getting overtime hours. When cutbacks are neccessary, overtime is cut back, and these blue collar workers who rely on overtime pay to support their lifestyle, suffer. Many have nicer "things" than the white collar university educated do, who are salaried. Fast forward back to yesterday's white collar automotive, and you have white collared workers now retired from the big three, sucking the companies dry with the enormous pension packages .
Automotive has historically been laden with non-value added costs, and that is it's poison.
Gm plant in Ontario plus a few plants in the states are cutting numerous jobs. I assume they are on-the-line workers. Those would not be making over $30 /hr (if that). White collar workers make more...not sure if they are being cut as well(?)
All do earn a decent living with good benefits. The union is fighting the lay-offs.
I do feel bad for those families affected. It will be a trickle down effect economically once again.
Loganlogan: you can voice your opinion at anytime, as we all do. We know how to live "green" We all do our part, some larger some smaller, We get it. Everyone is starting to feel the penny pinch and adjusting accordingly. But for those who have been pinching for years, it is getting tougher.
I have always lived by the motto: if you don't have, you don't buy. Many haven't lived that way in the past and now they are feeling it. It is tough for many people right now with lay-offs, food prices, gas prices. It probably will get even worse before we start to bouce back.
very well said DBD and jeep.....we dont by anymeans live high on the hog.....my husband is the only one that works.....yes we own a new home, likely the cheapest new house in our area with NO UPGRADES, because that didnt matter to us, it was about practicality, i do buy things for the house when i can and even then its bought at bargain stores, we only own one 1998 vehicle. Dh is the only one that works.....if things continue to get worse i dont know how many more corners i could cut....of course at this point we are trying to be wise with our money more than ever and even doing our best to live on the cash only policey........yes, we will all keep plugging on as we have no other choice. I do agree times are much different than it was in the 70's when i grew up, my parents had the same sofa for years and years..............it can be a very materialistic world and im just as guilty,.....but i even try to keep that down with my kids and us too.....we dont need every new kidget and kadget and a personal computer for each member of the family.
smiles
janetd
Wow $75 an hour is that really true I know when DH worked for the BC Government people always had this idea that they made way more money than they really did.
I see lots of stores looking for new staff but that's about it. I have to wonder though, North Americans like to spend money to make themselves feel better. What happens to all these stores when there is less disposible money out there. Especially since more people are making minimum wage. Credit can only go so far.
I feel bad for the auto workers as they will never find comparable jobs money wise but perhaps they were making too much to begin with. I think I heard somewhere that they make $75/hr. I wonder if they agreed to make $40/hr if GM would have kept the plant open.
I agree DBD it goes way beyond the price of gas to many people it eats up to big a portion of their income. As I said before it is not just filling up at the pumps it is the price of groceries, clothing and heating your house that have skyrocketed. What bothers me is that if the government wanted to they could stop it but they have left it alone and the Oil Companies are making recoed profits. I don't disagree with the statemant about the banks many people are over extended and have bought into the theory that they had to own a home and are now in a bad way but having said that I don't agree with the banks loaning out money toa nyone that came inthe door and the new 40 mortgage with only 5% down is just silly. The young couple that bought our last house did just that and he was a Logging Contractor and I haven't heard if he is still working or not but the Logging business here is BC is really slowing down and they maybe in real trouble.
What should have been on the news in the last ten years is the amount of money banks were willing to lend out, and the amount of people accepting this money without thinking it through. People used this money to buy homes they couldn't afford and now apparently vehicles they can't keep on the road. My high school economics teacher once said "If you don't learn anything in my class it won't matter if you remember just one thing "There are two types of people in this world, those who lend money, and those who borrow money.
What we pay at the pump is only the very tip of the iceberg of increasing costs though. On a personal level, I cut out vacations long ago so I could afford to have a house. I don't spend a lot on my decor so I can afford to have a house. I'm not alone in already having my money dedicated for what I need because there is no second income here and the only way I get to buy something like tile to update my house (which I consider an investment so money well spent) or software I need to work is to cut something out or work more hours than I like to, so where do I cut? Given my customers will have to dedicate more of their budgets to increasing operating costs and may be feeling the pinch of fewer revenues, it might also mean it's harder for me to make what I normally can make, never mind extra. There are lots of people like me who have already given up the luxury items as well as a few things some might consider essentials just to afford to have a house (especially in a market like Calgary's) where do we cut?
For many people, this thing will be felt in every fiber of their lives. Those who won't notice are in the minority IMO. Meanwhile, they've already announced the biggest increase in history to heating gas, more than double the price by fall. Add another $2000/yr to your tally there on just that item and now one household is out $4000- $6000/year. That's enough to mean many people can't or won't have homes, owned or otherwise.
For some people that money you mention may not be big deal, but for others that and heating and the related inflation means trouble. That extra money may be money they need for insurance, rent, basic food, and other 'extras' like going to the dentist or buying their kids new shoes and all other things are going to go up making it even harder. People who are on fixed incomes, under union contracts (which means their incomes are fixed for now), or working just to survive are going to really feel this. Yes, many people have more [I]stuff[/I] than previous generations, they also have more debt. they don't have more in net worth, savings, retirement funds because of that debt load. so it's a false front they aren't going to be able to manage now so their house of cards will tumble. $4000/yr is enough to cause some people to hit the wall. This has happened before and the only people who benefited were the pawn shops and receivership companies.
Meanwhile, the expense goes far beyond the cost of gassing up the car, it's going cost jobs all around as people can't afford to spend where they've been spending and that is trouble.
If it wasn't such a big deal, it wouldn't be on the news every night and being factored into every economist's mind as they are trying to project the fallout. There is going to have to be some fast stepping all around to not have a lot of people go under from this.
I just ordered my new vehicle and it will be diesel.....mercedes is now changing their production and gas has to be special ordered now......they are hoping to have electric soon...it is in the works......but I did realize that although diesel is more...it is less than the high octane gas which I pay now at $1.43.....so I will see a significant price reduction not to mention better mileage....
:applaud:
L
Please put things in perspective here. O.K., it may cost an extra $30/40 a week , about $2000/year. If you own two cars, $4000/year. What does that equate to? One family vacation, a home renovation, a trip to Pottery Barn...lol.. Most of us here are fortunate, very fortunate, we have even have homes to decorate. This generation has more than any other generation has had in the past. Tough times don't last, tough people do.
Actually, what you believe is important. I think the majority are trying to do their best but it gets frustrating when you feel nothing you do is going to change a situation or it is out of your control.
"Raving" :rolleyes: might not help but I do like to find a format to vent my frustration and sometimes by seeing everyone's point, I can deal with the situation and sometimes "a solution is there ".
Inglewood said:
We are smarter than you tend to believe. We GET the whole picture!
What "I" believe doesn't SEEM important here.
L
I feel the high cost of fuel in an indirect way will cripple our economy. The cost of everything you do or buy is in direct result of the cost of getting it to the store to buy it. Where I live our economy is based mostly on tourists and their numbers are down for many reasons but mostly it is because people aren't driving as far. The suppliers are charging a surtax on evrything that comes here and so we have to charge more it is a continuous circle and the only way to slow or stop it is to stop the source. We have downsized to a small car and use only it unless DH has to go out and get firewood so we can heat the house this winter. I think we each have to take responibility for our use of fuel and try to do whatever small things we can but I also think the Government must do their part to stop the costs from going any higher. I laugh when I hear well it is so much higher in Europe well just because it is doesn't make it right we have to try to be smarter and come up with a way to be better than them and keep ours lower.
Can you explain this comment.
L
We are smarter than you tend to believe. We GET the whole picture!
1000 jobs being lost in Oshawa. A direct hit or indirect hit (which ever view you want) of the rising cost of gasoline. These are high paying jobs and a vast number of the indiviiduals involved have no other skills and will have difficulty reentering the workforce.
Unfortunately, their countparts in the US are making a great deal less with less benefits and we do tend to be greedy and push the package. Sometimes we also price ourselves right out of jobs. I am going off topic but the effects of the rising cost of gasoline are going to effect all of us and have.
I also am very upset when I hear of the high profits of the gasoline companies while it seems that we :confused: are tighting their belts and trying to cut back on waste. I think that its time our elected representatives step up to the plate.
Unfortunately, it is the working poor that are going to suffer.. They have no control over the situation. :hairpull: WHAT A WAY TO START THE DAY!!!
"Loganlogan... Don't underestimate the posters here."
Can you explain this comment.
L
- instigate changes from micro to macro level depending on where the rant goes.
[SIZE=3][COLOR=DarkRed]Change starts with a "rant", doesn't it?[/COLOR][/SIZE]
We're taking green-steps in our home to adapt to our new world, and I understand the economic reasons touted as the basis of increasing gas prices.
BUT when the cost-per-barrel for oil continues to climb and the profits earned by oil companies (and their subsiduaries/supporters) also grows larger, I get pissed off! Yea demand is increasing and supply is [U]supposedly[/U] decreasing, so costs increase... but shouldn't profit be [COLOR=Red]adversely affected and decrease[/COLOR] in this scenario? Well that's not happening and so I RANT!!
Yes I'm pissed at the increasing cost of fuel - and, like I said, we're making lots of changes in our home so that we're less affected by this AND so that our carbon footprint is smaller. But I'm more pissed that greedy companies (and the individuals that profit from them) make too much money by exploiting natural resources and society's needs. It's WRONG.
That's why I rant and why I want to see CHANGE!
What is the end result of ranting? What is gained? Is a 'rant' a temper tantrum?
I spend my limited energy more conservatively. :cool:
L.
No, a rant isn't a temper tantrum. it's usually (as in this case) voicing an:
- opinion,
- observation,
- concern,
- frustration,
- comment on something which can serve to:
- start conversation,
- get others' perspectives,
- release tensions,
- instigate changes from micro to macro level depending on where the rant goes.
If any of us aren't interested or choose to spend our energy in other ways, we can skip over the thread. This is a free for all forum so there are often rants here and this is the place for them.
Damn right we're going to rant :mad:
We should also share ways that we're trying to minimize how much gas we need/use. Here are some:
(1) Walk or bike to stores whenever possible. I'm lucky that I live close to pretty much everything. I realize not everyone does, do here's an idea for you -- why not carpool to the mall or grocery store?? Maybe set up a weekly shopping trip with a friend or a couple of friends and all go together in one car. Rotate driving duties each week. If you go to the mall once a week with three other people, then you'd only have to drive to the mall once a month instead of 4 times a month.
(2) Figure out the shortest route to wherever it is that you're going. Sometimes the shortest route takes a bit longer, but better to spend 5 extra minutes getting there than 5 extra dollars on gas.
(3) Replace gas-powered tools with electric. Or ever better -- replace your gas or electric lawnmower with a reel mower :)
(4) Unless you absolutely, positively HAVE to drive a minivan or SUV or truck, trade it in for a smaller, more fuel efficient car. Or if you have two large vehicles, replace one of them with something smaller and only drive your big vehicle when you have to. We have two smart cars and one small pick-up. We only use the pick-up if we need to transport something that won't fit into a smart -- like an 8 x 10 carpet ;)
Don't we all, no other choice.
Loganlogan, I think we all get the big picture. Don't underestimate the posters here.
....so we have every right to rant!!
What is the end result of ranting? What is gained? Is a 'rant' a temper tantrum?
I spend my limited energy more conservatively. :cool:
L.
GREED!GREED!GREED!....I am a firm believer in Karma...It will all come back to meet them.......The banks aren't any better,,,The Bank of Nova Scotia reported a $980 million dollar profit for 2nd quarter . :hurl:
you are likely right, im sure the government wont do crap, but i honestly feel your abrupt comments telling people to get over it, isnt exactly called for. Perhaps some of us will get over it when we are living in a freaking outhouse because we cant afford anything else....so we have every right to rant!!
smiles
janetc
get over it folks. things are going to change. high gas prices. high food prices. drop in tourism and everything is going to be hit. get a head start. change is inevitable. the sooner you start the better off you will be.
all of the powers that are causing the gas prices to fly -- well have they stopped yet? is the government ever stopped them? ever? NO.... it is going to continue and it is going to get bad. :cry:
I think the drop in US tourism in Canada is a combination of their dollar plus the gas prices. We see the effects around here. The marinas are not as busy as when the US dollar was so high...now the gas prices are going to effect it even more.
Yes changing how we live is what we need to do but as said before that isn't possible for everyone. If there are things like carpools and bus system in place and you still refuse to use it then that is a issue but when you live where these things are not available it makes it a little harder. We have downsized to a small car only use DH truck when we can't use the car walk within our town when we can but going to work I still need to drive. We have noticed a huge drop in American tourist already and that is going to hurt everyone here. Everyone I have talked to this year is not going on long holidays just to much to spend on gas. That sort of thing hurts the economy everywhere.
price per barrell dropped yesterday ...approx $3. This was supposedly because of slow down in demand....whatever, it's a game.
Get with the program and either pay for it or change your lifestyle/cars/careers to use less.
Belly-aching :cry: wastes time. Use your creative energy to deal with the inevitable and learn about ways to adapt -share those ways with others -be open to change.
I'm sorry, I see no other option.
L.
But the comparison isn't quite fair since we have habitually conditioned N. America to depend on oil/gas for everything from having vast suburbs to our transportation systems. We also have less options when it comes to using alternative sources.
Meanwhile, when the companies have already announced they are in profit position for the year after only the first quarter, it's pretty hard to listen to them boohooing about their expenses. We produce the stuff, and even at OPEC pricing, we pay additional taxes and you watch, they are going to price themselves out of business if the people can get so up in arms they start to sway the politics of it all. I can't think of many other industries that have things so wrapped up they don't even compete between each other with pricing but all move up and down together and have our gov't so far under their thumbs we actually can't get the alternative cars approved here.
We are completely under their power here and it impacts almost everything we have to buy. That kind of monopoly and dependence has caused the iraq war as well as many other power struggles we need it so badly now, so we have to get gov't behind using alternatives and the only way to do that is with our voices and votes.
QUOTE] I think on the most part people have been changing thier lifestyle but that still doesnt mean we dont have a right to complain and there is only so many things that you can realistically change, ecspecially when the cost of gas is driving other prices up, such as our food. Changing careers and vehicles is much easier said then done. [/QUOTE] [/I]
I agee totally. If enough voices are heard there will be a change or some solutions. Remember "ladies" we got the vote. I don't think we should just roll over or be criticized for 'Belly-aching", I say voicing an opinion and expressing a concern.