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Are a false economy. I agree totally with stylegirl, go see a lawyer.
be sure and use a lawyer to do this as well as your will. your documents will need to have an affidavit of exectution in order to be validated by the courts. you will also need this if you move from province to province. i used to work for an investment management company and had to do some estate administration. i've seen some pretty bad stories of wills that were nullified due to technicalities. if you value your assets, family and the terms of your life, spend the extra money to make sure that your wishes come true. i am personally not a fan of will kits. you will have a more thorough assessment of your affairs if you sit down with a professional that can sort through your specific circumstances (eg. second marriages, stepchildren, etc.).
Write it down. Write a Living Will. In Alberta, sign a Personal Directive. Be specific about your desires. Give copies to your family.
i think that in 15 years most if not all the options have been exhausted...thus the reason....as for her husband yes he has gone on with his life...but don't you think he still thinks about her...i'm sure he doesn't feel good about his decision...but feels that maybe it is in her best interest....if they have children...how hard must it be for them to see their mother like this...it is not in anyway comparable to abortion...but would you want to live like that?...i know i sure wouldn't .....i've already told my DH what my wishes would be in that situation and i have made it clear to my parents...should anything happen...to not stand in his way and let him do what he feels is neccessary and what my wishes are....they are completely ok with that...for now anyways...i guess if the situtation were to arise they would probably feel different...
why her husband is so set on letting her die. He's gone on with his life, why not turn her care over to her family.
I had a friend in Junior High that was in a horrific car accident. She was taken off life support, but she was strong and healthy and lived. Her parents just could not take the feeding tube away, her Mom said I would be killing my baby.
When you went to visit, her eyes followed you and she'd smile at her parent. She out lived her mother, and just died this fall after 26 years in a coma.
Personally, I would want every measure taken before the decision to DNR. I understand therapy is most important in the first two years.
It's such a difficult decision, what I hate most though is how in the states they are comparing it to abortion --
read that in many of these cases what appears to be reactions from the individual is often just involuntary movement....
you are absolutely right about the spin. Unfortunately American media are at a very low ebb these days, on many fronts.
is when CNN and others show video of her somewhat reacting to people but if you look closely at the screen, the date says 2001 or something like that... is her condition the same as in that footage from 4-5 years ago or is that "selected" to put a spin on the whole thing...
a very sad story on so many levels...
You are quite right about the personal directive (which comes under the powers of attorney I believe). I think when people have large families they might be very helpful to avoid debates (I dont' know of many siblings who agree all the time so this kind of thing really takes care of it).
are not legally binding, but (in Alberta, anyway) Personal Directives are. A Personal Directive is a binding legal document which allows you to appoint a person or persons to make decisions about medical care and other matters in the event you become unable to make decisions for yourself.
I feel so bad for her parents. What torture they must be going through. Imagine having to stand there and watch your child legislated to die by starvation? She is breathing on her own and there is disagreement on what her physical state really is. She is not suffering and she was not being kept alive by extraordinary means. A feeding tube is not extraordinary means; I have seen my own daughter on it.
On the other hand, I really do think her husband has her best interest at heart. Why else would he go through all this court action? If he didn't care and she didn't express these wishes to him, I doubt he'd be carrying on the fight to this extent.
What a dilemma.
i think it is disgusting...i believe anyone should have the right to die if it is there wish, but it must be in writing, however nothing was in writing and it is based on her husband saying "she would not want to live like this" i have not heard that she actually said if i was in this situation that i would want to starve to death...its horrifying to me to see that.....from what i have seen and heard on the news she wasnt in pain and i cant forget the smile she had on her face when her mom kissed her cheek. As for her husband, he has gone on with his life and if her parents are willing to care for her, then so be it...we would not do this to a child that was born mentally challenged, 15 years down the road. Basically what im saying because she isnt suffering, nothing in writing stating her wishes...then let god take her life when it is her time. that is my opinion
janetc
I just wanted to inject some info on living wills, wishes, and such for those who may not be aware.
Living wills are not binding legal documents in most provinces (actually none I think). Doctors can choose to abide by them but are not bound to. They do however, express your wishes so your family and doctors will know should you not be able to communicate when you need to. They can also stop family disputes (and we see how far that can go with this case) regarding treatments but only if those who disagree can be convinced to stop objecting. So it all hinges on your caregivers/decision makers willingness to respect your living will. Had Terri had such a document, this case probably would have never gone on so long or been such a struggle as her wishes would be in writing.
There are also powers of attorney that come into play. It's worth checking with a lawyer to ensure you have the right ones in place for a medical crisis and that those who are responsible fully understand your wishes and agree to abide by them.
Recently my mother was classified as 'palliative'. Her doctor let us know that a living will isn't enough. The problem comes if a patient is in crisis and can't communicate and the family isn't there. The hospital can't always wait for someone to be contacted and may go ahead with treatment if they don't know otherwise.
What happened with us was the doctor called us children in and had a meeting with my mother. She explained all the options (levels of treatment) and made sure we all agreed on what would happen in various instances whether they were related to the terminal condition or something else that could arise. The information was then placed on the hospital record (and can be changed if necessary given the condition my mom has and as her general health changes). That's important as the hospital now knows exactly what my mom wants regardless of whether we kids are around or not. They also know we all agreed at the meeting, so no dispute should arise. They now don't need the living will to determine what they should do.
It's important that you have your wishes known (a living will is only one option). If you have a living will it is important that your doctor have a copy/be aware of your wishes. It is also recommended that you make up a card with your basic wishes and contact names, that is in your wallet with your medical cards so emergency staff know your wishes (at the same time it is advised to have organ donor wishes stated).
There are so many things to consider if you are not facing a specific condition when doing a living will. I wonder, for instance, what happens when someone becomes quadroplegic (sp?). Initially they are usually hooked up to all manner of equipment and life support. I don't know that given many people do survive the injury, that medical staff will withhold treatment. I've heard of 'right to die' cases with burn victims etc. so wonder to what extent living wills etc. hold.
What I recently learned is some more common things should be considered. For instance it was pointed out to us that as you reach a certain age you may want to specify that no pounding be done on the chest to resusitate as it can break all your ribs and be very painful. Someone in their 30's may get through it quite nicely while for someone in their 70's it may be too much. Feeding tubes as well as other mechanical devices may be temperary as well as permanent. You need to be clear before you refuse them what your limit might be. If you want them to make every effort (in a coma for instance), at what point should they call halt? Is it a week, a month, a year or is it given a certain prognosis?
I will say it was not a pleasant thing to go through with my mom but when my dad died we had no idea of what he wanted. He arranged his own funeral, but never told us what he wanted regarding treatments. The doctors at the time didn't agree with each other and we had to make a decision very quickly not knowing what he wanted or which doctor was right. It wasn't a good place to be at all. At least with my mom we are now all sure of what she wants and hopefully won't have the extra gut wrenching of wondering if the right thing is being done or if we are thinking clearly in the midst of a crisis.
So do have a living will, but know it's limits and cover your bases where ever you can.
I know I'm in the minority but I think that if there is disagreement between the Drs about whether she really is in a persistent vegetative state, then it would be better to err on the side of life.
there has been 5 doctors to assess her...2 chosen by her husband who said she could not be rehabilitated...1 chosen by the courts who also said she could not be rehabilitated...and 2 chosen by her parents who said she could be rehabilitated...i thought she came to be this way by a car accident...apparently she had a eating disorder...her husband sued the doctor that misdiagnosed her condition and was awarded 1 million dollars..$700,000 was for her care...which i'm sure has been eaten up...although her parents claim that the reason that she collapsed was not from an eating disorder but a result of injury sustained by her husband...i think there is more to all of this than the media is telling us...it sure does make you wonder though huh?
where she seems to smile at her parents - if that is all you've seen, it *looks* as if she is responding. But as Dreamer said the evidence does not support that. A very tough case for both sides. The one "side" I do not feel belongs in the debate is congress.
that several judges have heard medical evidence that Terry is absolutely, irreversibly brain dead - that her brain is in fact mush and only her autonomic nervous system is functioning. All of those judges have heard her husband's evidence that she would not wish to be kept alive while brain dead. All of those judges have also heard her parents submissions and evidence from their experts. ALL of those judges have agreed the feeding tube should be removed.
The courts have no ulterior motive to accept the husband's evidence over the parents. His is obviously just more credible to the courts. We have no reason to doubt the decisions of all of those judges.
I am very sympathetic to the parents who have lost their beloved daughter. But she is long lost, as I understand it, and they are merely keeping alive a shell.
The emotional side of this is very complicated, I know I would not like to be kept in a state of coma for any length of time. I do not know if she is in a full coma, but can you imagine waking up from that after 15 years ?? How much has changed in our world in that time?? Would you ever be able to catch up - assuming you had all your previous mental faculties intact, and I don't think you would.
Anyway, what I wonder about is why the courts are even considerig the parents' wishes - isn't her husband her legal next of kin ?? Shouldn't that give him the legal right to make these decisions??
Lots of questions - sorry . . just adding fuel to the debate.
I have also worked in Hospital and Nursing home settings and have looked after people whose feeding IV's were removed. The no heroic measures and DNR's were clearly stated both on the chart and in the room over the beds. The family made the decisions with no living will. They preferred to see their loved ones at peace rather than suffer any longer when all hope was gone. It is not as horrid as some may think, at least not the people I looked after. They usually are so far away mentally that it really is peaceful when they go.
Yes I saw that interview and found her husband very genuine. The parents however are holding onto any little hope for their daughter which as parents I am sure we would all do for awhile but after this many years.............
Did anyone see the interview last night with her husband, and his lawyer? He's gone on with his life in that he's living with a woman now, but he stated emphatically he will always love Terry... he seemed genuine. Her parents, on the other hand, seemed genuine, too. I think it's easy to sit back and watch, but think about it... would you disconnect your daughter or son if you were given hope by a neurosurgeon that someday could be tomorrow?
I could not have said it better myself, I completely agree with you on all counts...fyi, I read today that her hubby is remaaried sincr 1995, and has two children
Fendi
I would not want to be starved to death even if I was in a persistant vegetative state. In my mind DNR is absolutely the right choice for people in palliative care or in a coma, but it does not include starving - it is not activitely starting the heart or breathing again when they stop. In other words actively starting life when death was imminent as compared with actively choosing death when it is not imminent. I hope that makes sense.
I also worked in the hospital setting and I can remember a case that was upsetting to me. It involved an ALS person, who had a DNR order, had his heart re-started due to medical mismanagement. He should have been allowed to die. But withholding medical intervention like that is different than withholding food and water, basic necessities of life. Just my thoughts on the matter but I know that most these days don't agree.
thought-provoking thread. I too would not want to be kept alive indefinitely if in a "persistent vegetative state". And I think I know what I would do if it were my spouse, based on his expressed wishes...
However, if it were one of my children - how to let go of hope then? DH and I have often talked about Robert Latimer and how he must have been tormented by Tracy's suffering... I know the two cases are not the same, but to me they provoke similar questions "What would I do to end my child's suffering? What would I do to keep hope alive?"
I find it impossible to judge the actions of anyone in either of these families. It is disturbing to see them used for political purposes...
I have never met anyone who themselves personally would want to be kept alive if there was little hope of recovery, ie little or no brain activity. I also questioned my lawyer and he also has not met anyone personally who would want to be kept alive. There are often degrees of which someone wants to be kept alive ie. "give me a chance, if I'm not going to recover, pull the plug", a "chance" being subjective, maybe one month, maybe two years who knows. But the idea is no one wants to be kept alive artificially for ie. 15 years. No one wants to die slowly from dehydration or starvation either but given the choice when they are of sound mind and body, I have not met anyone who would want to continue a feeding tube. So, for me, this issue is really about the family of Terry, not Terry. Terry's family is struggling with the loss of their daughter and I empathize with their pain. I would be interested to hear from anyone who would not want their feeding tube removed.
ps. I worked in the death/funeral industry for many years. I know we don't like to think about these things but for those who do not have one already...please ensure you have a power of attorney and living will to express your desires to family and friends. Also if you have changed your marital status, get these documents updated to refllect your current marital status.
L.
I most definitely would not want to be kept in a vegetative state with no hope of recovery.
I wonder if there are any stories of people in a vegetative state whose spouses want to keep them alive and the parents don't. It seems to me that parents are more willing to keep their children alive at any cost. Do you think so?
you father is quite a man...how devoted is that...but it was in her best interest...i can't imagine how you felt....
I am having a living will made up ASAP as I don't want my sons and DH to have to deal with a issue like this. My Mother has Alzheimers and my father would not put her in a home (he is totally blind) and he said she stood by him all those years and he wouldn't turn his back on her now. Finally the Dept of Mental Health had to take and put her away she kept getting lost. It was awful for all of us as we knew she needed more care. We tried to talk him into it but he couldn't do it. I may get this awful illness and i don't want my family to be faced with this so I am instructing my family that when they know it is time for me to go to please put me somewhere safe and not to feel guilty about it. I won't want to go but it is for the best and at least I will be safe.I am going to include that I do not want ot be kept on life support. I think we should all take the time to do this so no one has to go through this ordeal. JMO
spell it out..NO heroic measures please. DNR Do Not Resusitate.
no i woud give consent...i wouldn't want my DH to have to deal with that....and i don't think i would want my kids to see me like that either...that way they could have some closure and move on and enjoy their lives....
QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jalan [/i]
[B]This is not meant to be sarcastic in any way, just wondering for discussion purposes...Is there anyone out there who would not give consent to have their feeding tube removed if they were in a persistent vegetative state with little hope of recovery? [/B][/QUOTE]
This is not meant to be sarcastic in any way, just wondering for discussion purposes...Is there anyone out there who would not give consent to have their feeding tube removed if they were in a persistent vegetative state with little hope of recovery?
I am a registered nurse... currently in a Neonatal Intensive Care Unit, but have worked many places throughout my 22 years...