I cannot believe what a rip-off vet service is. It's going to end up costing me OVER $1,000 to get two of my dog's teeth pulled out :hairpull: :hairpull: :hairpull: What the hell is up with that?!?!? For crying out loud, it cost me less to get my own tooth pulled out, and that was covered by our health plan!!!
This is totally insane. Any more doggie teeth problems are going to be dealt with using a piece of string and a doorknob!!
There goes my decorating budget :cry: :cry: :cry:
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DBD - I would highly recommend that you check with your vet to see if your dog has had a shot. After going thru our drama I would hate to see any other doggie be infected.
Will try and post a picture of my sweet baby soon.
I had to go look up hepatitis and found a couple of sites that describe it. So just in case some others are interested in be aware of this here are a couple of sites.
[url]http://www.2ndchance.info/hepatitis.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.sfweims.com/health/hepatitis.html[/url]
I sure wish I knew where Ebony's records have ended up (in my mess since I moved). I'm just itching to know if she had the shot as a pup since one of the articles says her breed is prone to this. I guess I call to her vet will tell me.
All of our pets were either adopted from a shelter or unwanted pets, so I have a soft spot for other adopted pets and extra admiration for people who adopt from shelters :) Good for you!!
I can relate to having a dog that eats everything -- our Lab is basically a vacuum. She eats EVERYTHING, including dog & cat pooh. Blech!! :hurl: And there's a thread here somewhere about the night she ate a pack of birth control pills :eek:
After sharing your story with us abour your pup, you HAVE to post a picture of her so we can all oooh and aaah over how cute she is :)
thanks Smoogie and DBD for your very kind words. Its so nice to know that there are such nice people on this forum. I hope she passes her next bloodwork too.
Hepatatis is contracted via urine or saliva. I mentioned that she eats almost anything, well I wasn't kidding. She sometimes even eats other dog poo and especially likes horse pies. Ick! Apparently the major signs are diarrhea and vomitting.
She had diarrhea on an off for a while. We thought maybe she was allergic to the dog food we were feeding her so we changed it a few times (bad idea) or to because of her scoffing garbage off the streets, etc. She was a rescued doggie so we didn't know her history .
We think she may have had it in a mild form for quite a long time before getting that heavy attack. There are 2 kinds - chronic and acute. We now think she may even have the chronic as it had been bothering mildy for a while but the docs are not quite sure. Anyway she is a happy dog once again as we have been monitoring her vigilantly. I don't know if there are any long term effects - hope not!
A family member is taking their dog in for teeth to be cleaned (tartar build up), so far blood test were $90. I told them to be prepared. ka-ching, ka-ching. Pets are part of the family so no matter what are looked after. :)
Hepatitas? I had no idea dogs could catch that. How do they get it and how did you know? Was she just not herself or were there some certain signs?
It is too bad that emergencies and such charge through the nose. I hate the ones around here when they practically charge for the air being breathed while some can be so reasonable.
Meanwhile I am glad she is on the road to recovery. When my last dog was ill I would have paid anything for her to get better but unfortunately it wasn't an option. So I understand you being ready to pay the price especially when she is getting better and you can enjoy her for a long time to come.
skinnygirl, your dog is lucky that you and your hubby are the sort of people who are willing to do whatever it takes to make her healthy and happy :) $8,000 is a big chunk of cash -- but really, you can't put a price on love, can you??
Hope she gets an A+ at her next check-up. Keep us posted :)
DBD - she got hepatitas. What a drama! She was sick on and off for a while and we just thought it was due to the fact that she eats anything she can find. When walking her we have to be so careful as she is such a sniffer and picks up all kinds of things. You'd be amazed what people throw onto the streets and under bushes, etc, Anyway one night she was really bad so I took her to animal emergency. A night there and $1300 later we then transferred her to a critical care facility where she had ultra sounds, the blood sucked out of her for tests and a truck full of painkiller and antibotics. Besides it being soooo expensive I am pleased she went there as they took fantastic care of her. I was able to visit as often as I wished and the technicians and doctors were there right beside her 24hrs daily monitoring her. It ended up costing $4500 for 5 days though! :cry: After that we had her going to our regular vet every 2 weeks for bloodwork and repeat of antibotics (more money). She is still on special dietary food and goes back to the doc in a months time for a checkup so I am hoping things will be a-ok.
Throughout it all she has been a real trooper and her spirit has always been great. If I was in her position I can't say I'd be the same.
She is such a sweet thing and my hubby is in absolute love with her. To us she is our whole world so even though it was financially a nightmare I would absolutely do it again in a heartbeat if I had to.
\$150.00.
Very funny! Thanks for the laugh :laugh: :biglol:
To get that sort of total going your Lucy must have really been through something. I hope all is well now.
I feel for you Smoogie. At last count my baby has cost me almost $8000 this year. I was saving for a kitchen re-do however that has now gone out the window :cry: My friends now say "hi new kitchen" instead of "hi Lucy" (what a bunch of comedians they think they are!). Anyway I would do anything for my sweet girl although when she is naughty I do threaten to sell her for medical experiments.
A woman brought a very limp duck into a veterinary surgeon. As she lay her
pet on the table, the vet pulled out his stethoscope and listened to the
bird's chest.
After a moment or two, the vet shook his head sadly and said, "I'm so
sorry, but your duck, Cuddles, has passed away.
The distressed owner wailed, "Are you sure?" "Yes, I am sure. The duck is
dead," he replied.
"How can you be so sure," she protested. "I mean, you haven't done any
testing on him or anything. He might just be in a coma or something.
The vet rolled his eyes, turned around and left the room, and returned a
few moments later with a black Labrador Retriever.
As the duck's owner looked on in amazement, the dog stood on his hind
legs, put his front paws on the examination table and sniffed the duck
from top to bottom. He then looked at the vet with sad eyes and shook his
head.
The vet patted the dog and took it out, and returned a few moments later
with a cat. The cat jumped up on the table and also sniffed delicately at
the bird from head to foot. The cat sat back on it's haunches, shook its
head, meowed softly and strolled out of the room.
The vet looked at the woman and said, "I'm sorry, but as I said, this is
most definitely, 100% certifiably, a dead duck."
Then the vet turned to his computer terminal, hit a few keys and produced
a bill, which he handed to the woman. The duck's owner, still in shock,
took the bill. "$150!", she cried, "$150 just to tell me my duck is
dead!?!"
"The vet shrugged. "I'm sorry. If you'd taken my word for it, the bill
would have been $20, but with the Lab Report and the Cat Scan, it's now
\$150.00.
I've only been doing this with this dog who is 2.5 (Cocker Spaniel). I learned about it when my last dog had Cushing's/cancer and became convinced the raw diet had to be better. No complaints about the kibble I fed the other dog as it was good, but there is just no comparison now that I see dogs can have real food.
I mean can you imagine someone (other than Kelloges) coming out and telling us we could just eat a bowl of some pellets each day and have all the nutrition we needed? they'd even make it nice colours, nice shapes, and we could just keep it in a bag, nothing else required, same thing day in day out so we stay nutritionally balanced. The other bonus is all parts of the animals we raise would be used, no waste. Talk about easy. No kitchens, dishes, tables, appliances req'd and I bet we wouldn't be fat either. Sounds good right? That's what dogs have to look forward to, day in day out, same old processed stuff that has no resemblence to anything they'd each in nature.
Meanwhile the issue (according to my vet) has always been that people thought they could throw scraps to the dogs and as a result the diet was unbalanced. So the processed stuff came out and it was easier for people. Meanwhile dogs have developed all the same diseases people have from getting too into processed foods. They didn't get diabetes, heart disease, arthitis, etc before but they do now. For me, the big thing is how boring it must be for them.
When I see how crazy this dog is for her food. She sort of hangs around like she is trying to tell me whether she'd like chicken or fish and she does have her favourites. She also seems to sense what is good for her and although she'll eat a biscuit when the guys at the gas station give her one, she passes on things that are full of grains most of the time.
My other dog liked her food, but not like this one who seems to show real enjoyment.
Anyway if you do some reading on various sites you'll get the idea and see how easy it can be. Most people seem surprised at how well the dogs take to it but it doesn't take anything at all to get them into it. I think most of it is getting us owners to calm down but I've come to realize my dog can take care of just about any bone even as a little puppy. These days a chicken leg might last 2 or 3 minutes tops with no bit of bone left behind.
BTW the other big bonus is the poops. They are about a third of the size of what you get with kibble and they rarely have a smell to them (that would be the grains causing that stink and mush part). They are also firmer so easier to pick up when on walks.
I couldn't figure out why I couldn't find them a day or two later (in the yard). All that would be left was white dust. They just dissintigrate basically and leave calcium behind if left for a few days. I also found little poops lined up on top of my fence. It took me a while to figure that one out but it turned out the local magpies had discovered them. They'd take them up on the fence and peck away at them. So it doesn't get better than the birds carrying it away when it comes to cleaning the yard.
I just moved and I think it took about a month before the magpies around here figured it out. Now I get them visiting every day picking away. they sort of sit on the garage waiting for the dog to do her thing. Seems weird, but it works for nature I guess.
Wow, I have spent about the last half an hour or so reading about BARF, Bones and Raw Food, I have never heard of this diet before. Of course, I have heard of feeding your dog raw beef but never chicken because of the bones. I am totally shocked. Boy, they say we learn something new everyday, I sure have. I have had dogs all of my life, I feel somewhat ignorant about this. How long have you been feeding your dogs this way, DBD. Is this the first one? I am very curious about it. I still would have a hard time just going and purchasing a raw chicken and bringing it home and just giving it to my dogs. I have two Bouviers, our male is 11 and female is 3. After being on a diet of processed kibble for his whole life I find it difficult to switch the older dog over to a complete raw diet. It sure is interesting......................
Those no no's are not based on being raw I don't think. Cooked bones are bad for sure though. If you do some reading, you'll see how it works and how lead astray we've been thinking they can't eat anything but kibble. Natural works and they love it.
Wow, I an amazed at feeding your dog chicken bones, that has ALWAYS been one of the no no's of feeding dogs. But, by the sounds of it you have not had any problems. I guess like you said it is raw, not cooked meat that you are feeding. Also, not supposed to feed them pork bones. I am quite surprised by all of this, must read more about it. Thanks for the information.
I have never heard any warnings about dogs being too old or young to go raw. What you may have to be careful of is if your dog is a gulper. My old dog was a gulper and with her I would have been very careful until I was sure she was chewing the bones. Raw bones like chicken are very soft and do digest, but gulpers can be pigs and get into trouble. Generally they will puke befofe they cholk but all the same....
Actually with the old dog I did switch her to the dehydrated when she was 13 and she loved that stuff. I still feel badly that she had kibble all her life when she could have had more variety and tastes. I wish I had known then.
Anyway if you have a gulper, you can get the ground food. That has meat and bones all ground so no worries and it is one way to introduce a dog who may have no idea of what real food is all about.
Most dogs seem to give it a 'what the ..... is this?' and after they sniff a bit and are encouraged you get a 'really! I can have this?!'. I had a good chuckle at my pup when we started. First time she was hesitant and then just dug right in. Second time she literally was in the air squealing like she couldn't believe she was having it again. She still squeals like crazy when a tin of salmon is coming her way.
One caution (although here again, there is great debate) is how you start. I believe it's all or nothing as the digestive rate for grains is much slower than it is for meat/bone. One of the reasons dogs don't get salmonella and can eat stuff that would kill us is they can digest meats really fast so any bugs have no time to take hold in their systems. If they have their normal kibble, that process slows down because of the grains. meanwhile some people feed both and their dogs are fine. Sometimes though some dogs get the trots. MIne went from kibble to raw in one fell swoop with no tummy upsets so you really have to guage your own dog.
When it comes to fats you have to watch. When mine gets too much fat she can peel the paint. That's where the premixed stuff is nice when you start as everything is already measured and sorted so you get the right proportions.
So you really just feed her raw meat, fat and bones and all?? Well, I guess that's what dogs would be eating if they were living in nature, so that's probably the best thing for them!! Do you think it's too late to switch our 12 year old dog over to a raw diet?? She's pretty picky about her food, but she never says no to meat, so I imagine she'd be happy about it!! :bliss:
Glad the dog is happy and getting some ice cream has to help.
The raw diet is like any other diet, there are a lot of versions and beliefs but the basic principal is feeding raw whole foods instead of processed cooked food. Some people believe dogs need fruit and veggies with it, some don't. In the extreme it's called prey feeding and that's feeding something in it's totally natural state...like throwing the dog a dead rabbit (which can be very cheap if you have road kill around) but it's pretty grizzly to someone like me.
I didn't have to decide really, my dog will not eat fruits or veggies unless they are totally mixed in her food. I sometimes buy the premixed stuff just in case but so far she doesn't seem to be suffering at all.
Here's a site that explains a lot. There is also a page that explains costs of the various forms of the diet so it's pretty informative without being as yucky (pictures) as some sites. [url]www.natural-paws.com[/url]
There is also an inbetween option that is freezedried. The brand I know is called NRG and it's really good but takes some time to rehydrate.
I can tell you that I am pretty squeamish so a lot about the diet bothered me but I was convinced that if processed food is poison for us it can't be good for dogs either. So when I got this pup I switched her at 12 weeks old by handing her a raw chicken back and stood back to see if she could handle it. Well she had that thing chewed and gone in less than 5 minutes and we haven't looked back.
I mentioned her vet not on board with the idea but he let it go and as we came in for shots and spay he started really raving about her. Her coat, teeth, muscle tone all impressed him. She's also a Cocker and the breed is very prone to ear infections and have a special smell to them. She had an ear infection when I got her and hasn't had one since (2.5 yrs), she has no cocker stink or runny eyes the breed has either and the only time she has bad breath is when I give her fish. I can't take the smell of fish at all. the vet has told me he is now recommending the diet after seeing her grow and most of all because she has been so healthy. The only time he has seen her is when we've gone in for things she has to have for her daycare so what I heard about it saving money in vet bills has been true so far.
Anyway, I generally give her chicken parts when I can get boxes on sale. I just go to the grocery store for those. So she gets a chicken leg or thigh/back for her main meal and a frozen chicken neck for a nightime snack. Sometimes I get premade stuff from the pet stores (independents often carry raw.. you can tell because they'll have freezers in the store) and they have beef, bison, emu, chicken, turkey, fish in whole and mixed forms. they also carry the truly icky stuff like tripe. I usually buy their patties as I can not deal with the real tripe (squeamish again and the stuff stinks too). If you have a hunter or fisherperson around you can feed a dog for next to nothing as the best parts for the dog are the parts people don't eat and there are usually groups on the Internet ([url]www.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDogCanada/[/url]) who you can access to find local suppliers of cheap food (those who don't mind dealing with the icky parts and are willing to share).
Another bonus is dogs are fine with meat that would bother us. So when you have some in the fridge that is past it's best by date or freezer burned, they eat it right up. My dog has had some premium stuff because of that. They also get a lot of nutrition from eggs and get some good play value out of boiled eggs (in shell) before they eat them. So it doesn't have to be expensive to feed this way.
Anyway, this dog is not going back to grains of any sort if I have anything to say about it(all dry dog food has some grain in it). Nor will she be eating a diet that has been cooked (other than the bits she gets to lick off my plate when I am done) as they need some enzyme that is killed by cooking.
Oh yeah, I was worried about raw food on the floor and such but I can say there is never any evidence of anything left. This dog has dragged beef on a bone onto the carpet and there isn't a stain or speck left. I have to be careful and wash my hands when getting her food but generally I have found it no big deal and there is never any food left over.
bigmama, she's doing great -- seems to be back to her usual self :) She was a bit woozy on Monday after the procedure, but was already looking better on Tuesday. She went for two walks yesterday and ate half a DQ cone :) And I swear she has a happier, more content look on her face now -- those teeth must've been hurting her for a long time :(
DBD, thanks for all the advice. You're lucky that you found such a good vet :) Can you tell us more about the raw diet??
The real question is ... how is your baby doing????
Smoodgie, for sure indoor cats don't need shots. They are a total waste and from what I have read it's not unusual for dogs and cats to develop tumours in the area shots are administered. That if anything, should make getting unnecessary shots unattractive.
As for heartworm, you can do a search on the Internet and find the maps and stats for heartworm by geographic area. They publish them every year (it might be the U of Guelph that posts it). If you are wondering if you should treat or not you need to check where you live as well as where you might take the dogs (holidays). this dog I have now has never had heartworm but there are no incidents of it in Calgary and she has yet to go to an area where it's been found. I don't know if I'd risk not giving the heatworm pills if it was around here as that one is serious.
I can tell you that after what my last dog went through I decided this one was getting only the best food (raw) and absolutely no unnecessary shots or chemicals. she had her puppy shots only and will only have rabies because of the licensing laws and only on the years she needs it (the shot she has is supposed to be rated for 3 years). She also gets the nose full of bordetella (sp?) but only because her doggy daycare requires it.
My vet isn't totally happy about my decision about shots but doesn't bug me about them since he wasn't happy about me changing her diet to raw either but now recommends it (he was so impressed when he saw what the diet did for this pup). So he is open minded to reconsidering some things.
From what I have read, all the other shots are basically not required, can cause ill effects longterm, and the diseases they prevent are easily treatable with fewer long term effects than some of the dogs have from the shots. Heartworm though doesn't fall in catagory as it is hard to treat and can cause a lot of damage before it's discovered.
Don't use cost as your deciding factor when it comes to shots, use the shot itself. Besides shots are not the biggest expense when it comes to care, it's the vet and what they ding you for when it comes to all the other problems like the teeth you just went through. If you find a vet who doesn't test when they don't need to and only charges what is reasonable the costs for all the other care the animals need will fall into line.
My last dog never needed her teeth cleaned in her 13 years. I attribute that to a few things but one main one was my vet convincing me to clean them myself before they got bad. I ended up doing that with tools I got at the drugstore and getting the dog used to me scaling her teeth. So what other vets won't tell you so they can make some big bucks every few years, one like mine will tell you to benefit the dog and prevent pain and big bills.
I hope you can find a vet like mine. Instead of walking in with a problem and him whipping out a form to fill out for tests he stands back and says "well what we have here...". I swear he's intuitive but I suspect it's pure experience. He can tell by how the animal acts, looks, and behaves I tell you. He also adopts the attitude of simple first. So, for instance, when my other dog was sick it was usually poops or poops and pukes. He told me usually both probably meant pancreatitis, poops alone was giardia. So, dog goes in, gets shot for one of those and if not better in a few hours THEN we go to blood tests and urine tests etc. When she had a bladder infection one time I took her to emerg. They tested the sample and said it was an infection but wanted to do blood panels, kidney function tests, x-rays, etc. and so on to $$$. I had been trained by my vet, so asked what difference any other test would make to the treatment. They said none but we would know about any other problem. I said give me the pills and we are out of here. I Knew she didn't need those other tests for a simple infection (unless it was recurring) but they tried to guilt me into them just to fill their wallets. So they took simple to the extreme when there was no indication it was necessary.
I can't tell you how many times I hear of unnecessary and inflated charges, so do call around and ask them all what they charge for office visit and yearly shots to compare and then if it sounds good, see if you can find out how they are on the compassion and doing only what is required score. My vet rarely turns anyone away while I know others who will have you out the door in no time if you don't have the money. That's a big difference in attude towards animals and care in my book.
I also think it works best to find a vet who owns his own business and sets his own rules. These big clinics are run by administrators who set the rules and the places seem to run like car dealerships rather than letting the vets decide what is proper.
Two of my sister in laws had dogs who were affected with heartworm. Luckily, both of their dogs survived but it was an expensive and worrisome time for them. They live in Amherstburg which is 10 minutes from Windsor. I never realized that heartworm was so common until their dogs were affected. I wouldn't take a chance.
I don't have a dog but do have a cat who doesn't get her shots either since she's an indoor kitty, although I THINK that maybe cats can catch leukemia on their own.... I'll have to check into that hmm.
Thanks for the advice, everyone :)
Last night I asked the girl who owns the stable where my horse is what vet she uses. She said the vet who takes care of the horses takes care of her dogs too. He just charges however much it costs for the shot(s) that he gives, and there's a call fee that gets split between however many people are using the vet's services that day.
Then this morning I was at the dentist, and one of the girls at reception mentioned taking her dog to a vet that's about a 40 minute drive from Ottawa. She gave me her vet's number, so I'll look into that option as well.
I've pretty much decided that shots for our cats are a waste of money -- they're 100% indoor cats, so what are they going to catch from other cats?? And our dogs really don't need anything more than the standard shots (rabies, bordatella, etc.)
Are heartworm pills really worth the money?? Are dogs in certain parts of Canada more susceptible to heartworm than dogs in other parts??
I love our pets and I want to make sure they stay healthy -- but I also don't want them dirving me into the poor house!!
This is the time to start your look for a new Vet when your emotions are not involved. Just get out the Yellow pages and start calling around and get quotes on their prices for regular services. When you see the different prices and you can take the time to go see them and their offices take your dog along and see how the office staff reacts to yor dog. You will find a huge difference in pricing and look outside the city to smaller towns in your area that is where we find the best prices. Blood and urine work is the biggest rip-off out there and what does it tell you nothing. They play on your love for your pet and what is best for them but in the mean time they take you to the cleaners. We have had many dogs and never had any dental work djone on them they get bones and deer antlers to chew on that keeps their teeth clean.
Partly lack of time, partly not knowing where else to go, partly because this vet knows my dog....
The original estimate was $400-$500. Then that went up to $757 with the blood work and urine test. After I paid for the tests, I expected the final bill to be about $600. When I went in to drop her off yesterday morning, the price was up to $850 -- at that point, I couldn't say No, because she was in serious pain from the damaged teeth and they had to come out. Looking for a new vet at this point would mean more waiting and suffering for her, and I'd end up paying for all the same tests to be done again. Then the vet found another damaged tooth that had to be removed, which brought the total up to $975.
My math on my last post was wrong -- that's a grand total of $1125, not $1225. But still, an outrageous amount for the work that was done, and not even close to the original estiamte that the vet gave us. Which is what ticks me off the most -- if she had originally said it would cost $1125 to do the job, I would have said forget it right then and there. But the price kept changing as we went along. Which is really not a very fair way to do business. It's not like the situation changed (other than the one extra tooth that had to be removed) -- so why did the price keep changing??
yep time to shop around!!!!
Yes it cost money to put them under anesth. but why could I get my dog put under, teeth cleaned, 6 teeth out with sutures, blood work (as he is 10) ,x rays and pills for 4 days all for 250$ in New Brunswick!!!
Yes I am sure the vets here pay more rent but that is a HUGE difference!!!!!
also the vet was going to check his mouth this week for free!( but we ended up coming back to Ottawa... the vet was ok with that since teeth are my thing lol. So I have been checking his gums and sutures. She also let me look in my dogs mouth when she was working on him etc.. I know for a fact she did a great job and took approp. action on the teeth removal as I saw the x rays and she even let me probe his gums so I know where to watch for bone loss in the future!
Start calling around..maybe check out Carleton Place as I know 3 of my neighbours go there due to the care and price.
Sometimes a drive is worth it!!!
Um..I don't get it. You knew ahead of time (at least that's what I understood from your posts) how much the bill was going to be yet you still took your dog there. Why didn't you just take your dog somewhere else like others on this forum advised you to?? :confused:
Ok thats crazy! I cant belive how much they charged you. That is just robbery I can honestly say I have never spent that much on a vet weather it be for my horse or my dog .... Makes me understand why I see all these comercials for Pet Insurance on TV now. We always insured our horses but never the dog or cat. If I ever get a pet again I will be sure to insure them.
So, the today's final damage -- $975. That's to remove 3 teeth -- she had another broken tooth on top in the front -- one bottle of anti-biotics, and one bottle of painkillers. And my hubby says he thinks her remaining teeth were cleaned. That, on top of the approx. $150 for the blood & urine tests, gives us a grand total of $1,225.
2 plane tickets to Calgary for my hubby and me -- $244 each = $488. No idea how much it costs to fly with a dog, but presumably less than a ticket for a human. Throw in a hotel for 4 nights, a rental car, some siteseeing, purchasing a few souvenirs, and we'd still probably be paying less with DBD's vet!! :hairpull:
OMG, we are getting SO ripped off!! And yes, DBD, this is a brand new, nicely decorated vet clinic. We didn't pay this much before the vet moved to this new place.
Even with the price of gas, driving to a vet in Carleton Place would probably save me a load of money!!