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WHAT DO I DO WITH MY OAK TRIM?????

Victoriangirl's picture
Victoriangirl

My husband and I purchased a 22 year old Victorian home in Caledon last year and are wanting to do some remodeling. We love the style of the house and the grounds are very private and picturesque. The bones of the house are great and the sizes of the rooms are wonderful but the one thing we’re not liking too much is the oak trim all over the house. We love the look of dark floors and white trim. The windows are all wood also. My girlfriend is saying, paint the trim but not the windows. Others are saying don't touch it, others saying paint it all out. There are wood french doors also. Also, not liking the oak cabinets in the kitchen, thinking about painting or replacing them, ideas please????? If you want to see the link of the house you can see it at…
 
This is before we purchased it and looks better with our furnishings.
 
http://bytheowner.com/home-for-sale-caledon-ontario-126108
 
Please, I really need suggestions...Thanks so much...  

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gmcauley's picture
gmcauley

Hello Victoriangirl,Cameron MacNeil, our Ask A Designer guy, recently addressed this issue in an Online TV segment ... here is the direct link:http://www.houseandhome.com/tv/segment/entryway-decorating-tipsYou can also pose this question to Cameron ... contact him through our Ask A Designer page.I hope that helps!Gwen McAuley (gmcauley at hhmedia.com)

CarrieinSK's picture
CarrieinSK

I did a sketch with the same grey as your roofing. I didn't put green in it as your house is quite pink and that would be the opposite of the colour spectrum. It would have the same effect as the blue.
I think painting the staircase is a great idea. That's what I plan on doing on our farm house stair case. I did pick up some wrought iron spindles but didn't like the placement.
Here's a quick pic of your house with the dove grey paint.

 

Victoriangirl's picture
Victoriangirl

Carr and Nestor, thanks.
Carr, the dark brown on the house, not loving it....can you try that with the grey you mentioned? My girlfriend said mossy like greyish green, what do you think of that?
I'm still swallowing everything she was saying yesterday and I like the way you think and would like to do everything in a budget more around 50,000...we have a double staircase that is not shown in the house description listing that has the carpet wrapped around it with that light oak again! I don't like light oak. It's soooooo dated looking. So, the designer said replace staircase with hardwood and white risers and paint the spindals white and darken the railing to match your new darker floors and put a runner up the stairs. Apparently because the house is 22 yrs old they didn't put this base thing under the spindas so that in the future it would be easier to put hardwood in and she said every spindal would have to be taken off and it's quite a job to put this trim type thing under the spindals....oh well...the carpet is in good condition and I mentioned to my husband why don't we leave the carpet for now and just do the hardwood in the main entrance, right below the stairs and still paint the spindals and darken the railing and when we're ready (financially) to replace the staircase it won't change much, cause the spindals still need to be white and the railing will already be dark.
thanks again, Donna

CarrieinSK's picture
CarrieinSK

Did a really ROUGH sketch of the outside. Painting out the blue (house and garage) with a "chocolate bar" chocolate (including the front door) would look very pretty.
 
 

CarrieinSK's picture
CarrieinSK

She is way out of line...and over budget. I'm sorry she got you upset.
The suggestions I made would probably come to about $5,000. max. I consider myself a "budget" decorator (have a diploma but just design for fun and my own benefit). I laugh when they show two similar rooms, one expensive $6,800 and the other cheaper $2,400. I always say "I could do that room, just as nice for about $800!" LOL
When I'm not "budget" decorating or renovating, I'm doing staging for selling our real estate investments. Painting, and repurposing items are my friend. Nothing cleans up a room better than the right paint. From what I've seen, most of what you showed me is cosmetic. I would take one room at a time, and go from there. Sanding hardwood floors is hard work but it's also rewarding when you see them coming back to life. We are in the process of sanding our farm  house floors. Yours would be much easier as ours had tiles and lino glued completely to them.  
I prefer rooms that can be lived in, chairs that can be sat in, and kitchens that you can eat in. I love natural elements. Right now, my style is modern cottage. What I like about this style is that you can reuse quite a bit of your current items. Are you close to the US border? There's a store called Menards that is THE best store ever! lol Renovating items 1/10th the price. We get all our building supplies from them.
 

Victoriangirl's picture
Victoriangirl

OMG I am so overwhelmed right now......talking to family etc about what to do...it's all about budget! The decorator came and said 65,000 at least for kitchen, 25,000 for master bathroom! the stairs etc etc she's guestimating 150,000 for everything! OMG...we just don't want to go into our savings and spend that amount. You're not going to believe it, she said everything you showed me shows you like dark floors and white trim, she says paint all the trim...oak isn't a big deal, it's only 1 grade higher than white trim, it's not cherry or another expensive wood, and it is only 2 and three quarters wide etc. she said paint it out, everywhere. stain the floors dark, etc.

Nestor_Kelebay's picture
Nestor_Kelebay

"I was talking to the previous owners today and she told me that the oak has only been treated with min wax oil base - golden oak and that was 20 years ago, so I think a min wax, oil based darker stain will adhere great and so does she."
If that hardwood has only been stained with interior wood stain and no varnish or polyurethane was ever applied afterward, then it can still be stained darker by applying another coat of wood stain.
So, you're right, and I can explain why you're right so you'll better understand what's happening depending on how the wood responds to the additional stain...
Interior oil based wood stain is nothing more than a yellow, red or brown dye that's soluble in either mineral spirits or alcohol.   They call it "oil based" stain, but that's only because it cleans up with paint thinner just like oil based paint; there's no linseed oil involved in making the stuff.  It's just dye dissolved in paint thinner.
When you put it on wood, that mineral spirits or alcohol gets absorbed into the wood, and the dye dissolved in it goes along for the ride.  Then, the mineral spirits or alcohol evaporates from the wood, leaving the dye behind inside the wood cells and cell walls.
The more porous the wood, the more mineral spirits or alcohol it absorbs and the more dye remains behind inside the wood.  Consequently, it's the most porous (ie: softest) wood that gets stained the darkest, and the densest (ie: hardest) wood that remains the lightest.  This is how stain "brings out the grain" in wood.  It is the dark growth rings of the tree trunk on unstained wood that are the densest and have the smallest wood cells that remain light after staining.  The lighter wood between the growth rings on unstained wood have the largest wood cells that absorb the most stain and turn the darkest.  So stained wood is really an exagerated "negative image" of unstained wood.
If stained wood has never been varnished or had polyurethane applied to it, then there's no barrier over the wood to prevent ANOTHER application of stain from being absorbed into the wood now. 
This is in fact the way that people treat wood with end cut preservative to make it more resistant to wood rot.  The trick is to allow time for the mineral spirits that get absorbed into the wood to evaporate after each application.   Only then will additional end cut preservative be absorbed to add to the amount of preservative chemical already inside the wood.
And, wood workers will use this same trick to PREVENT stain from being absorbed.  They'll paint the end grain of wood with mineral spirits an hour or two before staining to reduce the amount of stain that gets absorbed there, thereby providing for a more uniform colour on their woodworking project.
Note that the above discussion only applies to INTERIOR wood stains.  That's because exterior wood stains will contain some "binder" that forms an impermeable plastic film over the wood.  That plastic film will prevent any subsequent application of wood stain from being absorbed.  It's job is to provide a film that UV blockers can be encased in to protect the wood from the Sun, and to prevent the wood from absorbing rain water (which is what causes weathered wood to crack all by itself).
So, you're right that applying more stain now will make the wood darker.  But, now you know why you're right.  You might want to dilute your oil based interior wood stain with mineral spirits to change it's colour in stages over the course of several applications of wood stain to gradually darken it to the colour you want.  That's a safer bet than gambling that one application of undiluted wood stain will get you exactly where you want to go.  (I dilute "Cherry" wood stain with mineral spirits so that I can stain scratches in mahogany veneer hollow core doors in stages so that the stain matches the surrounding wood colour (darn near) perfectly, thereby "removing" the scratch from the door, so I'm a strong advocate of gradually changing the colour of wood through multiple applications of a diluted wood stain rather than shooting for the moon on the first try.
If I were you, the first thing I'd do right now is use a sponge to just dampen one spot of one of your wood molding with water.  If the molding temporarily turns darker (as most porous materials do when they get wet), then that will confirm there is no impermeable film on that wood to prevent the absorbtion of another coat of interior wood stain.  Obviously, allow time for that water to evaporate completely (and the wood to return to it's normal colour) before applying your oil based wood stain to that same area.
PS:  Good luck with this.  Over and out.
Post again if you want to know why wet wood is darker than dry wood.  Hint: It's exactly the same reason why your blue jeans are darker when they're wet.

CarrieinSK's picture
CarrieinSK

Nestor, I'm the complete opposite of you..I dislike wood moldings and tend to want to always paint them. I find the natural wood darkens the room too much. I have this disagreement with my hubby in every house, but our farm house moldings will be painted! ROFL

Victoriangirl's picture
Victoriangirl

Nestor, Thanks so much and thank everyone else too. We have the decorator coming in tomorrow but my final decision is restaining them dark, I'm 90% sure lol ...i like the look on her site tamerlaneinteriors.ca and I think she'll tell us the same. She lives just around the corner from us and we live in an area where theres a lot of nature and I think her designs best suit the area, if you know what I mean. I was talking to the previous owners today and she told me that the oak has only been treated with min wax oil base - golden oak and that was 20 years ago, so I think a min wax, oil based darker stain will adhere great and so does she. I'm really excited and I think we're doing the right thing...thank you all again. :-)

Nestor_Kelebay's picture
Nestor_Kelebay

"Thanks Nestor, it's so hard to decide weather to paint or refinish."
If there's ANY doubt in your mind as to whether or not to paint over your hardwood moldings, don't do it.  Painting over hardwood is a one way street.  You can't go back.  You can only go sideways by repainting them another colour.  So, don't paint unless you're sure, and only paint as a last resort.
If you want lighter moldings, then the best option is to replace the moldings.
You should also be aware that painting over your hardwood moldings may affect the value of your house.  People recognize that hardwood is a higher quality material than "paint grade" wood (like aspen or even hemlock (which is very similar to fir)) and both of these are superior to processed wood, such as MDF.  If you paint over your hardwood moldings, you can no longer see that they are hardwood, any most people are willing to pay more for hardwood moldings in a house (regardless of whether they're light or dark in colour).
Personally, I hate to see ANY expensive wood get painted over.
You always have the option of painting later.  And, you may get other ideas in the mean time.

Victoriangirl's picture
Victoriangirl

Thanks Nestor, it's so hard to decide weather to paint or refinish.
Donna

Victoriangirl's picture
Victoriangirl

oops tamerlaneinteriors.ca

Victoriangirl's picture
Victoriangirl

Your taste is exactly like mine....could you visit this site:
tamerlaneinteriors.ca
we're using this decorator and she's coming tomorrow. .. i think she's going to say stain the trim, what do you think of the look she gets when she does that to her designs?
Donna :-) Thanks so much.
 

CarrieinSK's picture
CarrieinSK

Gorgeous house! If I had to pick something on the exterior, it would be the blue. I don't like it with the brick as it makes the brick look too pink. I'd paint the blue a dark brown or dove grey. If you do paint it, go with a red door.
I would paint all the moldings as well as around the windows. I'd also get rid of all the rosettes in the corners of the moldings and do a crown molding look. I'd also do white crown molding on all the ceilings.
Livingroom: change out brass chimney doors and paint the mantel. Change out ceiling fan. Replace brick with a stacked slate and take down the floral window coverings.
In the bathroom, I'd stain or paint the cabinetry in a dark espresso, paint the room a light grey add crystal knobs, paint out the tile and get rid of the blue (if they are still blue). You could also change out the faucets.
Down stairs bar is beautiful...I also like the moldings and trim in the darker cherry and wouldn't paint them out.
Kitchen nook: change light fixture to a chandelier in either cut crystal or antique white with cream shades. Canadian tire has a 5 light chandelier that I love and will put in my dining room. Get rid of the burgundy curtain headers.
Dining room: take down wallpaper and paint walls. Add new window treatments.
For your kitchen, definitely do an antique white/cream colour on the cabinets. If you are brave, you could even do specks of mint, blue, grey and gold. You'd have to get the brush almost completely dry and just flick lightly. Ashley furniture has a dining room set that has this look.
Change out the hardware to something similar to these:
https://www.restorationonline.com.au/images/035%203701af%20%5BDesktop%20Resolution%5D.jpg
http://www.yourhomesupply.com/media/ss_size1/CP562-AI.jpg
Replace flooring with either slate or stone, replace tiled backsplash, add new stainless steel appliances and if in the budget, a carerra marble countertop.

Nestor_Kelebay's picture
Nestor_Kelebay

Victoriangirl:
Do you know if it's real varnish or polyurethane that you have on your wood moldings?
You should be aware that it's normally necessary to sand down the surface of an oil based coating to get a latex paint to stick well to it.  The exception is if your oil based coating is a dead flat oil based paint, in which case it's rough enough to strike a match on already, and doesn't need any sanding to give it "tooth" so the new paint sticks well.
Even if you're planning on painting with an oil based paint, it's recommended that you sand down a semi-gloss or gloss oil based paint before repainting with an oil based paint to ensure good adhesion.
If you don't do that, you might find that your latex paint chips off your wood moldings easily, especially in areas of high wear and tear, such as baseboards near the front and back doors and door frames near keyed locks and light switches.  And, that might make you regret having painted.
If I were you, I would try washing a small area of one of your wood moldings with a strong solution of TSP (trisodium phosphate) in an inconspicuous area.  TSP dulls the gloss of drying oil based paints and real varnish, but not polyurethane.  If TSP dulls the gloss on your wood molding, then you have the option of cleaning your wood moldings with TSP to roughen the surface for good adhesion rather than sanding.

Victoriangirl's picture
Victoriangirl

Anrol, Thank you so much for your response, you are totally right. I don't think I'm going to regret it. I've tried to live with it for a year now, and just can't. I do have pics but the program is saying that they're too large to download. Will try again later. Thanks again. :-)

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